I had no idea what to expect in Oblivion the first time through (never even heard of "level scaling" back then) and I had my ass handed to me many times over the course of the game. The second play through on any game is going to be easier and familiar - it can't help but be. Your statement that Oblivion had no replay value doesn't hold water though - many people played it with numerous characters. I imagine you were just referencing your own personal thoughts on replay value (which are subjective).

The Fallout system was pretty good. A mixture of set level and scaled levels for items/monster etc would work best. Some areas would have a 4-10 ranges other 2-6, some 20-30,etc. There would be hand placed non scaled loots and scaled random loot, a mix is good. And no area would have a 1-x(x being what ever the max level is) scale like Oblivion did, that was bad. Or you could do it by monster, mud crab would be like 1-4 an ogre 8-14 range or something. Anyway a mix seems best.

So if this poll is to be believed, 90% of fans want morrowind's leveling system.

If they don't listen to that it's just a blatant disregard for the fans.

This is about role playing, not farming or armor or having appropriate equipment at the appropriate level.

This is having an adventure in a strange and fantastic, living world.

Alas, it seems true role players are fast becoming extinct.

I voted "other" as I would like to see it somewhere between the MW and OB leveling systems. Probably neared MW but still with final bosses that scale to our level at least to ensure that if I get there as a high level character I can't just swat them once like a gnat and it seem like the end battle with the strongest characters in the game can't even put up a decent fight. And I want to be able to enter places early in the game and not have to back track to be able to go to certain areas otherwise I won't ever bother going back. I'll be too absorbed with completing my quests.

You gotta see it end up like Morrowinds method which was much better than the damn scaled leveling of Oblivion.

The way I personally interpret the poll is that the player base overwhelmingly was not happy with the level scaling in Oblivion. But I do agree for some instances, that there should be scaling (at least for bosses) so the player doesn't just trample over everything. Bethesda needs to create a perfect equilibrium that will allow the player to still have the freedom to do what they want, but not affect or control that progression too much to the point of breaking immersion. What is truly great about TES is that everyone has a different experience, and I personally believe Oblivion tried too hard in accommodating the player, to the point where some of the fun was lost. We need more freedom back, but completely reverting back to Morrowind's system isn't exactly the way to go either. While it was better in my opinion, it had it's own issues as well.

It is hard to roleplay when after going through the ruin right outside the prison exit I was still in Iron gear but I leveled up so much from how long it took to kill stuff that the next dungeon was all fine-steel and I could not kill anything. That ruined it for me.

EDIT: that was on the hardest difficulty. I since learned to play it on default and just let skill and attribute points come as they may.

I have absolutely no problem with not being able to go somewhere right away because everything there is hard as nails. In fact, I like it. As has been said above it gives you a sense of progression, you could go to red mountain at any time but you knew that it was going to get ugly. So I stayed away at first and when I finally went I was on edge because it had been hyped up for the whole game. it felt like a big deal.

By contrast, in OB the planes of oblivion never felt like a big deal because you'd been to one within half an hour of starting the game. There was no desire to stay away from them because they were easier as a low level character. To me that's more broken than a level 1 character with daedric armour.


The biggest freedom is the freedom to take the consequences. If I know that an area is dangerous for a low level character but go there anyway and get my [censored] handed to me it's my problem. If I do it over and over again until I stop playing then I'm an idiot and devs shouldn't waste their time hiding the sharp knives from me. A caveat: putting that dangerous area 200 metres from where I started the game (new vegas I'm looking at you) isn't very good game design.

Yup that game had a good progressing system level wise.

I want to be able to reach any area in the game when ever I want to, even if that means getting your ass handed to you before lv 20.

A first. I totally agree with this. I understand what Obsidian was trying to do there, but it's bad management. Hell, the game was already telling the character which direction to go in... so they were already giving the player the OPTION of seeing things the way the developer wanted...

i voted for other

my reasoning is that whatever the system they have in place in fallout 3 and new vegas is perfect.

i think thats a combination of scaling and fixed level areas. and i think storyline quests scale to the player.
hat would be perfect for me, and i didnt see much of anyone complaining about it in fo3.

I would like to see it exactly like Morrowind, but I would be fine with a system similar to Fallout.

The two biggest pitfalls to level scaling for me were:

1) You lost the sense that your character was getting progressively stronger.

I think this is a very important issue in an RPG. Part of what makes these games so great is the feeling of accomplishment you get from overcoming hurdles and seeing your character grow as a result. I mean there is about zero reason why people would play MMORPGs otherwise. I mean let's face it, grinding isn't fun, and it should be avoided at all costs, but the sense of accomplishment when you can defeat that hours before would have eaten you for breakfast is priceless.

2) Reduces incentive to quest for high level items.

I'll be honest, after a short time of playing Oblivion, I sort of became wary of trying to obtain rare items because I knew they would be nerfed if I was at a lower level. That's no fun at all. If Bethesda wants to keep my character from obtaining a game breaking weapon at the beginning of the game, don't put artificial restrictions on it such as level scaling or some locked door that will remain thus until "x" happens (unless this is integral to the main storyline or such). I want it to be hidden in some obscure place and guarded by a legion of the undead/ some super strong monster/ maybe a dragon?

I voted Other; I would have the level scaling completely removed, static levels for everything. I currently play Oblivion like this and it's a lot more fun as even OOO didn't reduce it enough for me, everything is static, even the rewards for quests are static to suit the static enemies.

At first I thought this would make the game seem smaller as you get more powerful you ignore weaker areas and they become obsolete, but this doesn't happen for me at all.

At a high level I use Bandit and Marauder lairs to get easy loot which I can then use to buy supplies to go onto the tougher areas.

Certain areas are strictly off limits at the start of the game as I'd get destroyed, but this just makes it all the more rewarding when I find I'm tough enough to endure those areas and get the loot.

Some people complain that the use of Invisibility spells would break such leveling, because the player could sneak into a high level area and get some high level loot from the start. This is not a problem with leveling, it's a problem with design of the areas and the enemies that populate them and how things like Invisibilty and Chameleon work.

High level enemies should find it easier to spot the player if he tries things like Chameleon etc, just like the Player can easily spot an enemy with Chameleon by looking for the shimmer or judging where the enemy is or using detect life etc. Enemies should have these abilities also, so the player can't just abuse these game mechanics.

Dogs etc should patrol Bandit lairs etc and they should have Night Eye and Detect Life as they would smell the player.

Agreed! Scaling loot svcks ass! There needs to be some other means by which it becomes impossible for a low level character to get the epic equipment. Scaling the quest, and then scaling (NERFING) the items ruins the experience. I'd much rather the monsters be too powerful for me to get to (insert awesome equipment name here) than for me to get to it, think that I've accomplished something, only to find that my (sword of ass kicking might) is really a (sword of shin kicking weakness).

Great idea!

What happened to this poll - gee whiz

So only those who don't want level scaling leave a comment, but those that do spammed the poll with their votes.

I'd imagine it would be possible for the devs to develop an option on this where one could turn it on and off.

Really - you all were that challenged by Oblivion?

It says yes to remove it. Meaning the ones who don't want it are the ones who voted.

What an idiotic post. 80% of hardcoe Elder scrolls fans want MW level system. But hardcoe elder scrolls fan make up, by far, the minority. BY FAR, the majority would likely like FO3's leveling system.

MW's system is not ideal IMO, it's just vastly preferable to OB's. That's why I also take issue with this poll, and why I also think the results are a bit biased. I think if the poll were simply, "Would you want Oblivion's scaling system to return?" then we would be able to explicitly know that the overwhelming majority of members here are against Oblivion's system, without pigeonholing them into saying that they think Morrowind's system is the best possible solution.

I posted my own ideal system in both this thread and the last. It is not the same as MW's system, but I think it makes a lot more sense than MW's. I would very much like for you to check it out and let me know if you think my idea is also idiotic just because it's not the same as yours.

the polls definitely biased as most of the people on here liked morrowinds system but I don't like Morrowinds System because its not perfect. Oblivions system isn't perfect by any means either but I don't think the system should be overhauled. Have some form of level scaling for Dungeon Bosses, for some armor although don't have every Maruarder or Bandit have Glass Armor or Daedric Armor this time around.

I'd say the poll results speak for themselves

No scaling, I hated seeing bandits in full daedric, hell everyone was in full daedric when you got to the right level. Poor farmers had Daedric warhammers strapped to their backs.

No scaling whatsoever, if they have this I will wait patiently for a mod to fix it like I have for oblivion.

If we must have level scaling, I want it to be like it was in Morrowind.