Morrowinds Level Scaling System has flaws I don't want to get powerful equipment at level 1 maybe at level 10 if I'm lucky but not level 1. I don't want to find a random chest at level 1 that has a Glass Curiass in it.

I'm one of the people who love getting god-like towards the end of an RPG.

After playing a game for 50 hours or more the last thing I want to do is fight another Goblin Warlord for 5 minutes - or worse, go to a Goblin cave where there is nothing but Goblin Shamans and Warlords which require 20-30 hits with my daedric longsword and 100 blades skill to kill.

At that point I just want to explore. If an enemy is stupid enough to get in the way of my Level 40 character, they deserve to die like the insignificant whelps they are. The should NOT pose a challenge when I'm maximum level. They should kick my [censored] when I'm level 5 though.

And unique hand-placed location-appropriate loot is important too.

If I play a thief, and sneak into a wealthy noble's house at level 2, I expect to find diamonds, 300 gold and a powerful short sword - not a carrot, 2 gold, apprentice lockpick and iron dagger.

Unless I'm mistaken, the only way to get powerful items like a Glass Cuirass in Morrowind is to either but it for heaps of gold, steal it from someone who should have it or go to a daedric shrine/dungeon with powerful enemies.

How about 50% level scaling? For every 2 levels you go up, the enemies go 1 level up. Of course, they don't all start at the same level. They would have a level assigned to them at which they'll be the same level as the player. Every 2 levels the player is away from them, they go 1 level closer to the player.

Then bandits around roads and small wildlife would have a "natural level" or 1-7, while the strongest daedra and vampires in remote dungeons would have levels above 20 or even 30. Then when the game spawns them from a leveled list they decide what their level is going to be by: natural level + (PC level - natural level)x0.5

So if you're level 2, and you get into an area with level 10 goblins, the goblins will be around level (10 + (2-10)x0.5) = 6. Basically this would make most of the game accessible early on, with challenges and easy enemies while you still have plenty of challenge late in the game.

There was never any sort of issue like this in Morrowind. Plus, rare items were... rare. When those could be found in dungeons, the enemies guarding them would be strong. So no glass armor at level 1, impossible.

I'll play under either system my biggest fear is that Bethesda will see what happened in Fallout 3 and with Morrowind and will get rid of level scaling completely. I'm not saying that the system in Oblivion is perfect no not by a long shot but there are some good things about Level Scaling if its done in a manner that does not completely ruin the game. Also I really got to get Morrowind.

By "Use a level scaling system similar to Morrowind," do you mean no level scaling system at all?

Morrowind had level-scaling, it was just well hidden and pretty limited to begin with.

:goodjob:

As far as I know Daggerfall has level scaling but is far different from Oblivion. I really have to try out Arena and Daggerfall at some point, the wait for Skyrim will make it perfect, as making new Morrowind characters since it's been so long.

The first thing I did with FO3's level scaling was to rip it a new one, and leave it in the corner bleeding and sobbing. Then I removed every single trace of it from the entire game (easy enough with the CS), as well as making everyone killable.

That was before I even started the game. I fully plan to do exactly that with TES5, so I couldn't care less what the devs put in there.

I think TES: IV took scaling over the edge. But MW wasn't so much diffrent. Morrowind did the exact same thing. I tested several times outside of cities.

Level 1-5ish. Rats... rats rats rats. scrib?
Level 5-8ish. Higher level monsters

So on and so forth. Hit level 20, that same area, all you see are spriggans, ogrims...things of that level.

But you could power up your character much more in MW. Enchanting...yea. A rats never leveled up with you in OB, they were always one hit kills after level 3 for me. At level 30 still...one hit kills. The bandits/maruders were the issue. Plus leveled loot.

But the scaling they are so similar that it's hard to say "I want morrowinds over oblivions). I say go tradition JRPG style. Outskirts of cities are the weak monsters...venture further into the wilderness, you bump into some crazy things. Caves/Ruins are to be avoided if you are a youngin'. Them types of things...Perhaps keep the spawns static with a chance of a higher level monster spawning depending on the area? Regardless of level?

Try and refrain from insulting others please, thanks. The point is old school TES fans overall enjoyed the MW level scaling system better. I would be one of them. However, that doesn't mean we should necessarily revert back to that system. I only mention MW because it's something Bethesda has already done, and it's merely to be a contrast to Oblivion. In regards to Fallout 3, I personally don't even remember its level scaling as NPCs seemed to be determined more on location rather than what level one was. Level scaling is necessary, but it needs to be done more subtly and the player needs to have more freedom, very much like MW. It doesn't need to be MW's level scaling system, but Oblivion's needs and overhaul and definite tweaking for a proper, immersive experience.

I don't want any level scaling, or at most very little. I want it so that you are exploring, and you are killing some easy creatures and then you come across a valley full of mysterious caves and suddenly, all sorts of powerful creatures surround you, and you have to run away. You train up and up and up and then you return to that valley, slay the monsters, and find some rare daedric armour that you could not find anywhere else.

All items should be available at all levels, but some items should be incredibly hard to find and you should maybe be unable to use some things until you are a certain level.

But I don't want levelled quest rewards. Because once I level up, they become completely useless. And I'd rather not have everyone wearing Daedric once I reach Level 20. Instead, quests should be difficult for low level characters to complete, then the reward is well-earned.

well said.

I want a very very slight leveling system, where the enemies wouldnt neccisarily spawn to your level, I want some punishment for doing something foolish and picking a fight with someone I shouldn't. But I do think the game should also spawn slightly scaled enemies that are sometimes easy to fight but outnumber you or enemies that are hard to beat but not unbeatable. The varied fights like that with limited scaling were fun.

Morrowind had a good scaling system, come to think of it.

I agree with you I think all quest rewards should have the same stats no matter what level you are and not every Maruarder should be wearing Daedric Armor. The Bosses of those dungeons is a different story but yeah Daedric Armor should be rarer like in Morrowind although maybe not as rare but you don't have every Maurader wearing it.

The NPC's in Morrowind didn't level scale though, they didn't get higher leveled gear as the player leveled. In Oblivion all the bad guys were waring glass, daedric and other high-level gear at some point.

And all though much of the exterior had leveled creatures, many of the dungeons in Morrowind didn't.

So, yes there is a significant difference between Morrowind's and Oblivion's leveled scaling.

Some of the NPC's in Oblivion do level like that Dunmer in Seridurs house who would upgrade his armor as you leveled.

I was talking about the NPC's in Morrowind.

Wait. I'll edit the post to prevent confusion.

An overly complicated leveling/scaling system can provide numerous issues whether its exploration or story based. I would like to see the extensiveness of the oblivion scaling system toned down a bit to be more player friendly in the sense of it shouldn't be taking me (and I'm exaggerating) 15 minutes beat any individual NPC because I chose to explore or build up my level first. Just my 2 cents worth really.

That wasn't a flaw in the level scaling system, that was a flaw in the game mechanics. High level loot should be in an area where there are high level enemies and no easy way for the player to get to it.

Besides what Redguard King mentioned, your post is the one I agree most. You basically summarised what an RPG should give to its players, a sense of accomplishment.

In some areas, even if you have the best possible gear available, you cannot simply venture in that lair, just because it is there. It should be challenging, till you figure out how to beat the odds (maybe some information found on a book inaccesible until you complete a quest or save some old scholar, I do not know). Challenging, however, does not mean 'always challenging', which is what I think Level Scaling tried to do. Eventually you will be more capable to face the foe with a greater chance of success.

i agree i dont see why games like fallout can have hardcoe mode and we couldnt get a game that can turn off level scaling. Then again honestly if we get that we will end up losing content, bethesda is going down hill, trying to appeal to the masses while shunning the ideas of its core players.

Thiss glass of homebrewed mead is to the faint hope that i wont have to get a pc and get mods to make buying skyrim worth it as playing oblivion was