oh lord, cant help bu lol!

I think there should be a "level scaling-slider" like the difficulty slider in Morrowind. Lowest there would be for example: "Every item and NPC is +-10 levels( either 10-0 levels lower or higher than your level)" or you could choose "Every item and NPC is fixed level".
If they implemented this correctly with values that you could choose yourself, i think the problem would be solved. I would personally choose the "No level scaling" option.

But i think there should be an interesting mechanic introduced in a S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (FPS with RPG elements in horribly mutated Chernobyl) overhaul called "Oblivion Lost" in that mod (along with other improvements) the NPC:s would "level up" when time went on. So if a lowly, novice level bandit would manage to survive for example 10 in-game days without dying (enemy factions and monster can kill it anytime), it could get some better equipment and advance to Expert level bandit. When the bandit eventually died it would spawn back, but in level novice level again.

This feature was really interesting in my opinion since it would make the game a bit more challenging and realistic. However i would only implement this on human enemy NPC:s like bandits and marauders, in the wilderness. (because it would be quite annoying in dungeons since they could be like level 40 when they were originally level 10.) The animals could maybe level up too, but at least the human ones.

-Emp-

The simple thing to do would be to combine both systems (Oblivion and Morrowind) and take the best of both. Have some form of level scaling for the bosses and some of the loot but have most of the enemies be at a set level and have us be able to find decent loot at low levels like maybe finding Orcish armor or Mithiril Armor. Although that same Armor shouldn't be too easy to get, It should be able like the Chain Mail armor was in Oblivion you could get it before it appeared in dungeons at Level 6

I hated the level scaling in Oblivion. It was a fun killer and nearly ruined the entire game for me. If there had been no mods. I'd have discarded the game entirely after two weeks or so. It was not just something I disliked. It was something I couldn't stand.

It ruined the feeling of archiviment, progression and success. No matter how hard you honed your skills, you never got better than the rest of the world. I don't want game to babysit me. If i'm stupid enough to wander into tombs, ruins or other dangerous places unprepared and unskilled, I deserve to get my ass kicked by lichs and other fearsome foes. Scaled loot was against all logic too. If you take a challenging quest at low level, the reward for beating it is always well earned. And don't even mention bandits wearing high class armour and weapons. Its just silly. And like the majority has stated. Fights didn't become more challenging at higher levels, they became boring as enemies had tons of hitpoints.

Bah I could rant about this issue all day, but I've writen already too many posts about this issue. So if by some miracle Benthesa is stupid enough not to learn from this error, I can only shake my head of disbelief. The most downloaded mods for oblivion were the mods that either disabled the level scaling entirely or tweaked it heavily. Those numbers tell a lot what went wrong with Oblivion experiment. So I'm not least surprised about these poll results.

The worst thing about the level scaling IMO was that the game got harder the more you level. Therefore I was wary of leveling and didnt level even when I could untill I fealt I was ready. That meant that I could not sleep. There is nothing worse then leveling and suddenly getting owned by Goblings, who you before leveling could kill with ease.
Also, it was hard to level right. Often you didnt get what you could out of it because you used your sword to much or something like that.

I still whant some form of level scaling. I hated the fact that in Morrowind you got so über that you could kill the tuffest enemys with one swing. It got boring. But I DONT whant the game to get harder because you level. Just not to easy.

Excatly I agree with you, there needs to be a fine medium between both systems.

well since my thread got silenced, mainly bcause i was trying to go over the top with it and get all my anger out. but i pray to the nine that they bring back the imersion and lore. I refuse to spend another 400 to upgrade my pc to run skyrim so i can get rid of the scaling and get decent quests factions and guilds

When I first played Morrowind, I got my ass handed to me by a Cliff Racer. Then I made a new character, adapted to fit the enviroment, and brutally, eviscorated that flying piece of Mudcrab crap. When I got tired of my set of steel armor, I had to spend days looking for better sets. By level thirty, I descided that if i really wanted such a rare set, I would have to fight for it with Divayth Fyr, possibly the most powerful NPC (excluding the Tribunal) in the game. That fight took me nearly twenty minutes, but at the end of it, I had a kick ass set of Daedric armor, and an enourmous sence of accomplisment.

(Loading up Oblivion)

Killed a mudcrab, woo. Oh look all the marauders are suddenly spawning better armor, gee how fun this is. by level twenty, every single Marauder had Daedric Armor and the only thing I felt nothing after collecting nearly thirty full sets. What a fun and complicating game experience that was!

In all seriousness, The level scaling should be toned down by a lot..

My biggest beef with Oblivion was its level scaling, no doubt about it. It ruined the feeling of progression and reward. Alot of its flaws are mentioned allready in this thread so I'l leave it at that. Hopefully Bethesda reads this and takes note.
But I assume they are aware of it, because the community has adressed these issues years ago allready.

anyone that has played the TIE mod for oblivion can attest at how awesome NO levelling system is. its an understatement to say that unlocking the level no matter where you go, except for main roads of course, dramatically increases the fun and challenge of the game.

that dungeon you encounter right across from your starting jail cell might be filled with some low level bandits and some rats...........or it might have a lich king and atronachs instead. you wont know though until you actually go into it and find out. its awesome.

I say remove level scaling completely!
So I vote NO! to level scaling.

@ncsuactor84 from the thread that was just locked
leveled loot pertaining only to loot containers

Rip out level scaling altogether and make lots of creatures. For example, creatures leveled 1-100. Rats and equivalent (like mudcrabs) would be level one. Major bad a** characters would be 100 (like a dragon, since it seems they'll be in Skyrim). Make it so the player can level up to 100 but make it logically impossible (like in Oblivion, you could level at a good clip (especially if you picked useful skills that you use a lot or train a lot) but you'd never get close to 100). However, make it so if you're using good tactics you can still beat people way above your level that you couldn't beat in a straight up fight. Here's a good example - in OB after I applied a bunch of mods I was in an Alyeid ruin and there was this major bad a** sorcerer who no way could I kill in a straight up fight (I tried, got mugged). Then I got him to chase me into some swinging blade traps and finished him off after he was really injured. This is the kind of system that would reward smart thinking in the game. Being able to beat characters who had you severely outclassed using ingenuity is how it should be done. Don't remove all characters that outclass you like Oblivion did. Oblivion discouraged leveling up b/c it was a lot easier to kill a bunch of rats and wolves in a dungeon when you were level 1 or 2 than a bunch of skeletal heroes and liches when you were level 20 or 25. You shouldn't be able to kill a dragon or someone else far more powerful than you in a straight up fight, it's nonsense. That said, there should be other ways to win fights against them even while outclassed if you're smart. Reward intelligence and cunning on the player's part, not dice rolls and luck on the game's part.

i didnt mind either system. oblivions was fun at high levels, giving an actual challenge, imo, when fighting bandits marauders, etc. At higher levels in OOO it just isnt a challenge, with those same NPC's wearing iron, steel, low level armors. Morrowinds was fun too because at the end of a dungeon you could expect to find a good piece to bring back home, make you feel your long crawl through a dungeon was worth it. both have pro's, both have cons. If i had to choose, unleveling would be my choice. and for those who dont know unleveling is where anything can be found at level 1 with he same amount of chance at each level. very fun!

I agree, this along with a revamped fighting system could allow for some very good fights and not hack fests. I wouldent mind there being enviromental things you could trigger to cause alot of damage like blasting a big chunk of stone off the cealing and having the parts fall on a group of bandits since honestly a lone warrior shouldent be able to beat 10 guys at once.

Alright, I'm going to give a more in-depth response to all the points here.

1) Loot Scaling - Overall it's a bad thing. A level 2 kobold should not have a grandmaster alchemy kit, nor should the Master Lich King of the Dungeon be carrying a measly 2gp and a wooden mace. Makes no sense, and it makes the game less fun. Random loot tables in general are a bad thing as well. I hate the idea of needing 2 bolts of cloth for a recipe I need and having to search 2 hours for it because it's a random drop. And drops should make sense. Things like carrots and cabbage should be found in barrels on a farm. And you shouldn't find 100 gold coins on a bear.

2) Encounter scaling - honestly I would like this system done away with all together. Random encounters (not level scaled) in the wilderness are fine, but in dungeons I think everything should be hand placed. Especially boss encounters. PLEASE bring back boss encounters. They are so much fun.

3) Item scaling - 100% done away with. Artifacts should be EPIC. And they should be worth the trouble you have to go through to acquire them at lower levels. That's part of the challenge and it's part of the fun of the game.

I agree that Oblivions level scaling is flawed, it was one of the things that annoyed me alot untill some decent mods came along.

I remeber in Morrowind, traveling to Ald'Rhun and sneaking into one of the guard towers, hiding in the corner out of sight of the guard and stealing a set of Bonemould armor from their supplies.
It was exciting, it was tense. There was a chance my sneak skill would fail, and the guard would spot me; wich he did, but I ran my ass off out of the building and got on that silt strider back to Balmora with my sweet new set of bonemould.

Now imagine my dissapointment when you couldn't even steal anything noteworthy in Oblivion, and all they had for sale was iron untill I leveled up several times.

I am level 1 yes, but if I want to take the risk I should be allowed to steal something that would normaly be 'above my level'. It's not cheating or exploit, it's role playing. Why would a theif steal a worthless pewtar bowl, when he can try to swipe someone's fancy sword or armor?

Level scaling was the reason I stopped playing Oblivion before I finished the game.

Morrowind was the best game I ever played. As a low level player, opening a cave door with no idea what to expect, was the best.

I will not order Skyrim until I know for a fact that this won't be an issue, either because the game was made right in the first place, or fixed later by mods.

Similar to Morrowind, please. It worked flawlessly.

The system is obviously broken when a level 1 character is stronger than a level 40 character.

Seriously, as a mage I got killed by so many ninja bears around Bruma its sad, and my strongest spells ment nothing to their 1 hit blows...

... and why do bears only suddenly evolve and exist when I hit about level 12 - 15?...

Something that combines both Morrowind and Oblivion. Keep the level scale for the human dungeon bosses and have some items be found at a certain level before they become available but for the most part get rid of most of the level scaling. Goblin Warlords shouldn't have a million hps nor should every Bandit or Maruarder be wearing Daedric Armor or Glass Armor and if you want to find Mithril armor at level 1 then you should be able to find some although it shouldn't be easy to get.

Honestly the level scaling means the difference between me buying Skyrim or not. I hope the same is true of many more.

Have they not worked this out in Fallout 3 or New Vegas. The scaling in that game is fine. There are dangerous areas - go there and the look is good but you will end up dead if your level is too low.

they DEFINITELY need to go back to how they did things in morrowind with this...

adventuring is supposed to be dangerous, its risky, life-threatening... the gods arent supposed to hold your hands the whole way and control fate so you never run into anything tougher than a squirrel when you are just starting out!

i want to feel as if im going to be ripped to shreds by a grahl if i go ANYWHERE off the main roads in skyrim, even at level 1!

i would love if they brought back the danger and excitement of adventuring...

i want to be able to run into things that would be able to kill me at level 30-40... while im level 1!

that might be pushing it a little, maybe... but it'd be awesome to know if you just wander off without preparation, you'll get slaughtered... i mean, this is skyrim... its going to be a tough land, i dont wanna run into squirrels and bunnies until i get to level 20+...

the level scaling definitely made adventuring kinda boring in oblivion early on, since you knew there was nothing special waiting for you.

Don't know about either of those games, and (no offense) don't really care.

This is what I do know Elder Scrolls level scaling:
Morrowind: Perfect
Oblivion: Disaster
Skyrim: ?