Realistic? How is enemies getting stronger as you progress an inch realistic? And bandits had glass and ebony armor, VERY rare armor. They can be stealing all they want, but like I said, it's very rare. It kind of kills a sense of exploration when you randomly end up on an enemy on the main road with some of the rarest armor piece. The advantage of predetermined items, is the ability of making some of them artifacts, unique items of strong power. Not only artifacts hunting was awesome, but it featured most of the time unique dungeons and tombs. Do you remember the Nord tomb? The body was laid on a boat in a cavern inside a tomb? Or some other very elaborate ideas like a tomb with plenty of rare items, the place being trapped and all? Scaling everything not only makes everything random, but everything identical. There were absolutely no incentive to go explore ruins when you always get the very same items depending on your level. At least exploring a random dungeon in Morrowind meant having a chance on getting interesting items. What did you get besides the same armor, same potions, same scrolls, same books? Getting ANYTHING in Morrowind dungeons was so much more satisfying.

Did you ever consider maybe other people in the world might lvl up too, you started out weak, dungeen dived, there tonns of others in the world doing the same, why should you be the only one getting more powerfull?? As for as bandits having nice armor maybe thats something that should be tweeked but they work in packs you work solo. With daedric once those gates open its not very rare any more anyways.

And while I'm on the subject, give everyone names. Yes, that includes random NPC A in the ice cave.

Did you ever consider maybe other people in the world might lvl up too, you started out weak, dungeen dived, there tonns of others in the world doing the same, why should you be the only one getting more powerfull?? As for as bandits having nice armor maybe thats something that should be tweeked but they work in packs you work solo. With daedric once those gates open its not very rare any more anyways.

The whole argument for level scaling in Oblivion was so that "people can go anywhere they want whenever they want" thus elevating the mechanic of choice.
The problem was that "choice" was promoted in total absence of "consequence".

Sure I can CHOOSE to spend my first day exploring the Deep Dark Hellcave of Eternal Torment and Dead Heroes... but it loses all context and meaning if the cave is simply scaled to your level. Similarly, it buggered the imagination when one realizes that they can spend 20 levels before going o the Deep Dark Hellcave of Eternal Torment and Dead Heroes, come out the other side a sturdy and weathered adventurer, then go back to Hole of Elderly and Sickly Sickly rats and find a band of Deadra Lords have moved in.

I for one endorse a system where each regions have a predictably leveled encounters with only small variation. That way, when someone comes to the forum to boast about braving the Deep Dark Hellcave at a suicidally low level, its worth bragging about

Did you ever consider maybe other people in the world might lvl up too, you started out weak, dungeen dived, there tonns of others in the world doing the same, why should you be the only one getting more powerfull?? As for as bandits having nice armor maybe thats something that should be tweeked but they work in packs you work solo. With daedric once those gates open its not very rare any more anyways.

Same with the 'your money or your life' highwaymen. Nice to get robbed at level 5; but that guy should run away screaming (with soiled pants) when the Imperial Dragonslayer came along carrying the famous Dragonspine Lance of Slaying things who look at me funny.

[Note: Anything I talk about in this post is disregarding the main quest, because as I already said on page 2, I do think the MQ should be leveled to some extent. So this applies to forts/ruins/dungeons/caves/cities/forests encountered outside the scope of the MQ.]

While I do think a very small amount of scaling would be alright and perhaps even better than no scaling at all, I think there is a very good way of avoiding the problem you present. In fact, my method would not only help avoid your scenario, but it would ultimately encourage people to level up, while providing them with more than enough opportunities to do so without putting their character in too much danger (as long as they are informed, prepared, and/or cautious). And arguably most important of all, it is based on a very natural state of order.

The idea is that as one gets closer to civilization, the enemies one finds are significantly less of a threat. Conversely, as one wanders farther away from civilization, one will find stronger enemies in greater frequencies (but of course, you will also find better loot this way, as well as some cool unique people/places).


? So for example, let's look at our friend Joe Adventurer, level 1, fresh out of the tutorial. He has no reason to worry about getting killed immediately because he is unlikely to face anything more dangerous than a weak goblin or rat. This is not due to enemy scaling, but rather because Joe emerges in an area that is relatively close to a major city. Joe has two options: [A] he can venture into the forest ahead of him, or [B] he can head to the city behind him. For simplicity's sake, let's assume these are his only options. Let's also assume that he knows he is supposed to meet someone in the city to continue the main quest, and he also knows that the forest holds dangers he may not be able to handle.

-- Here is what will most likely happen to Joe if he chooses Path A: He will soon encounter something like a bandit or a mountain lion, and try to fight it. Despite being warned that he would face some danger, he went into the forest anyway. If he is very lucky, he may survive a few encounters and get a bit of extra loot, but most likely he will either die or be forced to run back to the city. Lesson learned... For now, Joe is too weak to stray far from civilization.

-- Here is what will happen if Joe chooses Path B: He will enter the city, find the person he needs to meet, and learn what the next step is in his journey. Here he may also have the option of joining some factions. From here, Joe has several ways of gaining some experience... He can do some low level field work for a faction/guild to earn some money/experience and better equipment, or he can continue with the main quest (where the game will by default not provide anything too challenging), or he can look around the city for some easy jobs to do for a bit of money/experience without associating himself with a faction. Joe has successfully avoided putting himself in any real danger, but after a few jobs and/or some work on the main quest, Joe will be able to venture deeper into that forest.


? Now let's look at Joe Adventurer, level 30. Joe is now a powerful and experienced warrior. He has been into that same forest dozens of times; he's travelled a mile or two into the darkest, most secluded reaches of trees. He discovers an ancient mine in the mountains on the other side. Joe enters the mine, and finds that it contains some enemies even stronger than those in the forest. He is well stocked though, and is able to venture deep into the mine before he is forced to return for rest and supplies. He returns with a hefty supply of loot, but also the knowledge that there is more yet to discover in the cave.

? Joe is now level 45. He's now been almost everywhere on the map. That forest that was once impenetrable is now child's play. But he still hasn't gone all the way through that mine. He stocks up for the journey and heads once more through the forest and into the mine. He faces many foes, but at level 45, they fall to his blade. He soon reaches the deepest chambers of the mine, where an ancient creature dwells. This is among the strongest creatures in the game. Even at level 45, Joe cannot defeat the monster, but he manages to escape with his life. While Joe was in that chamber, he noticed a recess in the wall that looked like it led upwards, to a different area of the mine. But since he could not defeat the monster, he was unable to explore it. He returns, battered and bruised, but with a decent supply of loot still from earlier in the cave (he didn't bother taking loot from the forest since it wasn't worth taking for a character of his power and wealth).

? Joe, now level 55, is just about as strong as he will ever be. He has travelled far and wide, and by means of stealth, force, and financial savvy, he has procured a very imposing set of skills, coupled with some of the finest equipment from all of Skyrim, and even a few special items to be used in emergencies. He is ready once again to face the monster of the mine. He travels through the forest and into the heart of the mine. Joe is so strong now that getting to this deep chamber was fairly easy, and he still has almost all of his supplies and health when he faces the monster in the mine. After a long and epic battle, the beast finally succumbs to Joe's blade. Joe harvests some rare material from the kill and heads into the recess in the wall he had noticed 10 levels earlier. Inside, he finds a path leading to a new chamber, full of rare gemstones. Joe mines the gemstones, and continues along the pathway until he finds an old stone door. Joe opens the door to find that he is now on the other side of the mountain, in a small region of land that he had not been able to reach before, for the mine is the only entrance to this area. Joe vows to return and explore the area fully, but right now, his pockets are full with valuable gems and rare hides and organs from the slain beast in the mine.

? Joe returns to the city and sells the gemstones. He uses the creature's hide to craft a powerful cloak for himself. The cloak is imbibed with the magic of the fallen monster, and carries a strong enchantment to protect Joe. After selling his loot and restocking on supplies, Joe is ready to explore that new region on the other side of the mountain. Though the land is not particularly large, Joe will find some very interesting things there... There will be a small village inhabited by an isolated tribe of Nords. They will revere Joe as a demigod for slaying the legendary beast from the mine, and reward him greatly for this deed. Joe will then have the option of aiding the village in various jobs, if he so chooses. The land has a rich historic value because of this village, and also the special plants that only grow on this side of the mountain. Joe harvests some of these plants to be used in potion-making, and after thanking the villagers for their hospitality, he returns once again through the mine and the forest, back into that city.

Only now, at level 55, has Joe fully explored all that there was to explore in and beyond that forest that he first saw at level 1. He developed over time, and as he grew in power, he was able to explore deeper and deeper into the wilderness. At around level 30, he had seen most that there was to see, but it wasn't until level 55 that he was able to see it all.

I liked the poll in the other thread better. That one was great for seeing that almost NO ONE liked Oblivion's scaling. With this poll, results will be a bit more spread, because if people don't want to vote for Oblivion's system, you're pretty much forcing them to vote for Morrowind's system, because voting Other is usually perceived to mean something very specific, that has little to no chance of being a viable system.

I gave my own opinions on level scaling in the first thread. Here is my big post from there:

Still I don't want people randomly finding Daedric Armor in a place where they weren't suppose to go and do the thing I talked about earlier where you abuse Invisibilty to get broken Equipment and Weaponry. Level Scaling works but it needs to be tweaked I'll play under either system if its level scaling or no level Scaling it doesn't matter to me I'll still be a beast against any of the enemies out there unless they radically change the game from what it was in Oblivion.

I thought I would be a little bit more reasonable, instead of level scaling or none. Realistically, every RPG has it as it's important for character progression and making sure nothing ridiculous happens. Overall, the poll still shows players overwhelmingly didn't approve of Oblivion's level scaling. Morrowind was something familiar and quite well done in my opinion in this regard, so just an interesting parallel to see what the community liked and didn't. The fact that many are opposed to the Oblivion level scaling is the main issue I hope BGS takes note of, and hopefully it was addressed long ago.