Indeed. I agree that the fame/infamy system needs to have more of an impact on the world than it did in Oblivion. If I have a lot of fame (ie "Champion of Skyrim"), commoners should rally around me cheering. If I'm a mass murder, wanted posters should be plastered everywhere, and Imperial Guards should rally to trap or ambush me. The more change and interaction with the fame/infamy meter, the better.

But definitely that's also an interesting way to use minimum level scaling as an NPC awareness system of sorts. The armor and weapons one holds should also be an indication to an NPC that this isn't a guy to mess with.

The less scaling the more I feel railroaded into staying out of certain areas and the more I feel railroaded the less I like exploration and the more I feel controlled by devs which really bothers me and I so hate to get my high level character to fight the end boss and have him feel like a gnat. I hated when I finally got to Dagoth Ur and he seemed like a weakling. Awful, just awful.

I want to come out of the end battle feeling like I had to sweat it out a bit. And I like to be able to enter caves in lower levels as well in upper levels and find a fight I can win if I try hard enough there. Later I want to come back to that cave and find it refilled with higher level enemies which also put up a fight. And I hate one time through and them staying wiped our of enemies forevermore.

This is ideal, but at the same time it will likely be impossible to please all. I personally believe there will be level scaling, but hopefully not to the extent of Oblivion. Bethesda definitely needs to appear to the more casual base, but they need to recognize they also have a strong base of hardcoe TES fans. It was really the hardcoe aspects of Morrowind that really blew me away and made me a permanent fan.

Although I liked being able to go everywhere in Oblivion without fear of running into some godly monster and having my *** handed to me, scaling should definitely not be included in Skyrim. I especially hate the item scaling. I shouldn't be punished for completing a quest early in the game by having a pathetic enchantment on the reward for the rest of the game.

The moronic level scaling was consequence of a bad idea in design: "if the player can go anywhere, so the world must scale exactly like the player".
That's wrong, and you don't need it.
What you actually need in a non linear open world is a land which is mostly explorable, with some area going more and more dangerous as you explore it more deeply.

A game which handled it pretty well was Ultima VII. The Avatar was free to explore most of the world even at level 1, and any dungeon in the game was almost accessible at low level characters... but as you were going more and more deeply, these dungeons (all of them) were going to be more and more dangerous. Of course, story and quests in that case were designed to be non linear. You weren't going to end dungeon 1, then 2, then 3, etc... You were actually exploring all of them many times, every time advancing more deeply in them.

Of course, it used level scaling too to same extent, but it was far more subtle, without keeping away any sense of progression, quite the opposite.

level scaling makes the game a cakewalk lol.

I think a lot of people don't understand that level scaling is a system. A system can be tweaked. Hell, if Bethesda wanted to, they could have made every enemy in the game drop leveled FOOD if they wanted.

Not only that, but even Morrowind had level scaling. People just get so caught up and automatically think level scaling = Oblivion style scaling. No, it doesn't.

Okay. Let's see.

Step outside as a level .5 just out of the door brand new character with cardboard sword and armor.

Run into multiple level 99 enemies because there is no level scaling at all.

Give a heavy sigh and restart your character, hoping you'll make it more than five feet out the door this time.

Personally I do hope there is better level scaling. The level scaling in Oblivion needs revamping. But there has to be some level scaling otherwise you end up dying every time you start a new character, or end up some uber leet god that looks at enemies and they explode type of character in a game with no challenges.

I'm not trying to be mean but judging from the poll I guess everybody wants to get Daedric Armor at Level 2 instead of getting it at a high level. What they could do and I just thought of this right now is basically have different groups wear different armor like if your doing to fight Bandits expect Fur and Leather Armor but if you fight Maruarders expect Iron, Steel, Dwarven, Orcish. The Bosses though should have leveled Armor.

The game is scheduled to be released in less than a year. In other words, they must have already decided which way to go, and it's probably too late to change it. Personally I didn't start to play Elder Scrolls until Oblivion was released, and I loved that game, but I can certainly see why you'd argue for the non-scaling solution. It'd be interesting for sure, but which ever way they go I think it's still going to be an amazing game no matter what. Really looking forward to see though.

I think his remark is in regards to the topic title. I apologize for the confusion and definitely should have worded it similar to the topic. To be honest though, what really made Morrowind for me was how I went from being a lowly prisoner that would more or less get one shot by Imperial guards, to a godkilling reincarnation of Nerevar who really felt like a champion. The extensive level scaling in Oblivion really destroyed that immersion in my opinion, and made it really feel linear and as if the player wasn't really progressing at all. I do agree perhaps some aspects of level scaling could be used, but overall, it's the unpredictability that makes it so great and wonderful.

Fallout 3 style level scaling would be just fine. I feel they struck the best balance there.

I hope they remove level scaling altogether.And I hope they remove the ability to change difficulty on the go and make it so you can only chose difficulty at the beginning. It is ok with challenge, looks at demon's souls.

Not at all. If anything, daedric armor should be rare and almost non-existent like it was in Morrowind. We aren't suggesting that we want to get all the uber loot at the beginning of the game. We want a realistic game where we don't get everything handed to us and have a supposed constant challenge because of some level scaling system. Making it not only predictable, but as if the player is really accomplishing something and changing the world is the key. The level scaling Morrowind used made the player really turn their character into a nobody outlander into a true destined hero. One doesn't really get that feeling as much in Oblivion because the entire gaming experience is meant to accommodate the gamer and make sure they get what they want.

Level scaling is evil, along with Hitler, Microsoft, girls, and Jay Leno.

Definitely. I agree with you. Skyrim will definitely be a great game regardless of what level scaling BGS implements. It's just that the experience for the game could be harmed considerably if the system is made to accommodate the player in such a way that it was in Oblivion.

As Orzorn said, level scaling is used in many games. Oblivion was just over zealous with it. When you say you want no level scaling and hold up a game like Morrowind as an example, you're contradicting yourself.

I agree with that in theory as regular Bandits shouldn't at Level 20 have Glass Armor, it should be Fur or Leather Armor but have that same bandit scaled in Level to what you are -3 to -1 or +1 to +3 in Level depending on what dungeon the Bandits are found in.

Then what's the point in leveling if everything else levels with you? Level scaling kills all motivation to level.

If there is level scaling, there has to be level caps.

IE: Bandits cap out at level 10, Daedra cap out at level 20.

Level scaling is like a cancer tumour that must be removed. It only destroys the sense of accomplishment and progression in the game, making it more like a themepark than an adventure.
It also makes bad gamers of the new players :/ Begone you beast!

And he should know. And he is right.

That is true Bandits shouldn't be above Level 20 but the only problem with that is you'll make that dungeon or any other Bandit Dungeon too easy which means you could grind to get amazing loot with ease making the game a lot easier then it should be.

I agree.

I am somewhat irritated by the posts that call for a total end to level-scaling. Granted, nobody with any sense would want the sort of system we found in Oblivion. Bethesda already learned from this when they went on to create Fallout 3 and the expansions.

That would work wonderfully well! If each mob simply followed a slightly more complex equation, the game could be more balanced overall. For example: Bandits could have the level equation (Character level + 5) over 2. At level one they would be level three, at 5 you would be the same level, and at level 25 they would only be level 15. That would accomplish both arguments, right?

This would, of course, change depending on who you faced. Town guards might be (Character level + 30) over 3, for example.

That would not be an issue if the range of dungeons was broad enough so that there would always be a challenge somewhere.