This. Game was a joke when I was level 1 comparing to when I was already 20.

However I also hate the rich bandit theme. Morrowind had quite fair leveling system, only items you'd need to get were leveled, enemies had ordinary armors, I never saw a man in daedric armor unless he was supposed to have one.


I hope there will be some to extent, but I also want areas which I'll be* chopped liver* if I got to before lv 20 etc.
I also hope they will make game appropriate for higher level characters. In both Morrowind and Oblivion, there was no new area or item or enemy to greed the player after lv 40. Hell even 30. You were practically a god. So I hope they change this.

Oblivion was far too easy so give me back no level scaling! Or at least the option to turn it on and off though.

What I hate the most about the level scaling in TES IV is the eventual appearance of bandits or highwaymen in glass. In Morrowind, yes, conceivably you could get glass at the beginning of the game by running to the ghostgate and killing the chappies that had it on there. And if you could do that at level one, then I say you deserved it. The rarity of good armor made it worth something. As to the level of critters, and how it relates to exploration in the early game, I think it was fairly well handled in FO:NV. With Oblivion I would see a location in the distance and say, "I think I want to go there," would, and I would generally destroy whatever got in my way there. In New Vegas, I say "I think I want to go there" and sometimes when I get there it becomes "Oh Gods, my spleen, my spleen!" and I enjoy that. I was far more careful in my explorations in New Vegas than I ever was in Oblivion.

Not scaling the monster levels to the player level does not need to mean getting high level loot at low levels.

You could have level scaling monster to different areas, not player levels, so we can have low level areas with monsters and loot suitable for newbie players, and high level areas with a lot of high level monsters mixed with low level ones and the chance of getting some high level loots.

If a low level player is lucky enough, or smart enough to remain alive in higher level areas and can kill higher level monsters or loot boss containers, then the higher level loots that they find there, is indeed their righteous trophy, and should give them a great sense of accomplishment.


I say I want level scaling to the danger level of an area, with a very minimal scaling to the player level, but nothing more than scaling the level of monsters and loot for a level or two.

The differentiating of danger level of areas to newbie areas, low level areas, mid level areas, high level areas, and extremely high level areas, would guarantee that players find the place that its environmental challenge and loot found would give them the best mix of effort and the resulting sense of achievement, so if this place is too much for you, then retreat to lower lever areas, or if this area seems like a vacation, then find harder places and dungeons.

they should use it to an extent, like in NV, they really didn't do it for the people, but they definitely did it for the weapons, like you had to be level 15 to even find the anti-material rifle

THIS. In Oblivion, all the dungeons were similar, so I always thought why not just raid one place and wait three days and come back.

Anyways about the level scaling in Oblivion: If I go into a cave and I have an iron dagger, then my enemy may have a iron or the next level of equipment. Come back at level 10 it is the EXACT same thing only different names for the weapons/equipment.

I think that works well, because it's not like you suddenly find a material rifle on every single enemy the second you hit 15. Onve you hit 15 more start popping up, but it doesn't feel forced. In Oblivion, the second you hit 20 every enemy had daedric weapons, and glass/daedric armor (for the most part).

I like the idea of things getting more dangerous the further you get from civilization and the beaten path, lets you control the danger you're getting into without it feeling artificial. Go out in the woods in real life and god knows what you're going to run into. Meth-heads chasing you swinging knives in Munsters-esque fast motion, moonshiners with shotguns, bears and worse. That's a good system, I think, and one that can still be scaled to level if what's waiting out there in the dark corners of the world always has a 50/50 shot of kicking your ass unless you're prepared for it.

I really dislike level scaling.. If an areas too difficult I can just come back later. I don't need or want the game to allow me to do anything. I like the limitations. I also think it would actually be easier to create a good story without level scaling. If you don't want someone reaching an area before an event you simply make the creatures more powerful forcing the player to choose another path until he is powerful enough to actually be at that point. Oblivions level scaling was simply horrid and have no idea why anybody thought it would be a good idea.

PC = A
AI = B

PC + 1 = 1
A + PC = 1

PC + 2 = 2
A + PC = 1.99

PC + 3 = 3
A + PC= 2.88

ETC.

Until they don't level when you do.

lolwut?

Extensive level scaling is THE MAIN REASON I am not playing oblivion right now. I can't stand enemies taking longer to kill as I progress. It does not add challenge, it adds tedium.
Though I can appreciate the attempt, because Morrowind wasn't perfect either, in terms of enemy scaling.

There are good things about Level Scaling but I definitely think they can tweak the Level Scaling in Skyrim but I don't want low level characters getting high level loot. I don't mind someone getting Umbra at low levels because their Armorer skill was usually below Journeyman but I also don't want to be able to have a couple invisibility Scrolls find an amazing Daedric Armor or something similar in a certain place that has high level monsters and just spam the Invisibility Scrolls until I get it and get out of that area successfully. That is the flaw when you get rid of level scaling high power stuff is found at low levels New Vegas is a perfect example of why you should have some form of level Scaling. I shouldn't be able to find Combat Armor at Level 1 as thats something that I should be getting around Level 12.

Player character levels up once, so do enemies.
Pc levels up again, enemies level up 99% of the next level.
Pc levels again, enemies go up 98%,
Until enemies don't level anymore.
Some enemies start at level 50, when you get to level 10, they are 51 + .99 + .98 + .97 + .96 + .95. + .95 + .94 + .93 + .93 = Current level of enemy
Scaling to a level, I call it...Tasteful scaler multiplication

If level scaling is the same as OB, it will literally break the game for me. Will not purchase day one. Will wait a couple months and get it for the PC so I can mod that stupid level scaling out. Completely ruined OB for me, couldn't even play it vanilla because of how bad the level scaling was.

I should clarify that I don't absolutely hate all level scaling. I understand it existed in MW, and I liked MW system of scaling. WIth OB, it was completely different. I LOATHE OB's scaling system. Utter garbage.

I mean the fact that you couldn't get good armor until you leveled up was just BS. In MW you could go out and get some of the best armor in the game at lvl. 1. Wasn't even possible to do that in OB.

I good idea, but I wonder how theyre going to adjust monster difficulty to power players who are incredibly efficient with levels, and more fragile characters who perhaps have not allotted the same weight in skill points as a fighter of equal level.

I would like to see some leveled scaling, both in equipment and enemy level, but limited to enemy bosses (like bandit ringleaders) and determining what Daedra you encounter. This would mean that rarer armors and weapons would still maintain a relative rarity as well as making bosses and Daedra both challenging and profitable to hunt down and kill.

Some level scaling would work and would be needed (especially random loot). But I strongly feel for a level cap on npc's/monsters and handplaced/unique/rare items. So Rats and Bandits should not become level 20 just because I am level 20. They should be capped at a reasonable level.

In TES4:Oblivion, everything from random loot to artifacts to enemies was levelled. This was way overdone and actually removed any sense of exploration and accomplishment to me. Why bother going in that cave if the chance at finding something unique/rare was 0? Why would I be happy with the Level 5 version of Mehrunes' Razor? In TES3:Morrowind there was the chance at meeting a (slightly tougher enemy) that provided a challenge. That enemy could be guarding a rare item which was handplaced loot (for instance the Mentor's Ring near Seyda Neen).

Armor in my opinion should never be part of a levelled list. Maybe they would start to pop up on a merchant here and there, but on the whole I'd like to see enemies wearing the armor and weapons they would be wearing. So bandits should be wearing Fur/Leather armor and keep on wearing this (they are bandits after all). Marauders and the like could be decked out in Iron or Steel. Certain important or powerful (neutral) npc's would also have static armor and weaponry applied to them. Daedric Armor should be so rare that maybe one person would be wearing it (Divayth Fyr) and pieces of that powerful armor could be hidden away in remote regions or hard to reach places.

So if a player would like to kill that guy with the Ebony Claymore; he'd have to try and set up a trap or stealth or something inventive to obtain it (without getting beaten to a pulp). I still recall a guy in a guard post at the Dren Plantation who had a Daedric Claymore. So I set about gathering items that could aid me in taking it from him. And when I finally set everything up and got the sword; it really felt like I had accomplished something and felt really powerful with such a mighty weapon

Also, Fame/Infamy should also be used against enemies. In TES4:Oblivion every enemy was suicidal and the lowly bandits (who should have been lowly, but weren't with their Glass/Ebony/Daedric madness) came running and screaming when the Champion God-King of the Imperial Dragonlord Legion came marching up.

Same with the 'your money or your life' highwaymen. Nice to get robbed at level 5; but that guy should run away screaming (with soiled pants) when the Imperial Dragonslayer came along carrying the famous Dragonspine Lance of Slaying things who look at me funny.

So please, tune the AI as well; next to reducing the 'everything levels with you' to more believable standards. Something akin to Fallout 3 would work; but please incorporate the Fame/Infamy to affect the behaviour of your enemies.

Oh, and please no rats (or any other critter) that come dashing from a mile away to nip at my Daedric Boots from Skyrim to Elsweyr for the sole purpose of levelling my Heavy Armor skills. Healthy animals in general will not attack a humanoid unless there is no other choice. Diseased ones I can imagine, but on the whole animals tend to stay away from people

It does get annoying after a while you should be exposed to all of the hard creatures and the weak ones without having to worry about the weak ones becoming stronger

*rings the bell of truth and freedom*

:P

Seriously though, this is basically spot on. Bethesda, PLEASE , don't use OB's level scaling.

You, sir, make too much sense!
Though, in Beth's defense, FO3 was like what you just said for the most part. Even raiders would occasionally scream "screw this, I'm out of here!"

If you remove level scaling then the game will have to have a level cap where you cannot gain any more experience.

I completely agree with the OP. One thing I loved about Morrowind was being a newb, wandering into a cave and getting destroyed by dremora lords. It made the game much more challenging and, well, realistic in a sense. It gives you a sense of satisfaction to come back to the early areas you explored and be able to kill mudcrabs and skeletons in one hit. Oblivion didn't have that feeling. I enjoy the challenge, and the feeling of getting a super powerful piece of weaponry or armor early in the game, and seeing a wide variety of enemies regardless of your level.

....wrong level scaling. We're referring to NPC's leveling up with you.

I love the idea of fame/infamy, the idea of a variable hostility depending on your actions/level/equipment value adds a needed depth to the aggro system in Morrowind and in Oblivion.