Apologies for double-posting here and in the Skyrim mods section (http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1371752-rel-skyrim-monster-mod-lore-friendlier-replacer/) but I thought I might get a better response here as it directly involves lore.

I'm making a lore-friendly version of the "Skyrim Monster Mod" - http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9694.

My version (work-in-progress) is here - http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=16411

I'm making two main versions - one which is completely lore-friendly, and removes all creatures from the monster mod not seen or referenced in previous Elder Scrolls games.

The second version - which is where I hope you can help - is renaming creatures to fit better into lore.

My plans for renaming creatures so far are:

1) Treant - Any objections for renaming simply as "Spriggan"? Although all Spriggans in Elder Scrolls lore are female in appearance, they are inspired by the Cornish Spriggans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spriggan) which are not exclusively female. Another option would be to rename as "Nature's Guardian" (an alternate name for Spriggan) or "Spriggan Patriarch".
I think I'm leaning towards "Spriggan Patriarch".

2) Werecat - I think I will leave this as it is. There are plenty of were-creatures in lore, and it could also be what the Nords call types of Khajiit they've never come across before (people name things according to other things they know, and they know all about werewolves).

3) River Naga - how about "Sjoormen"? (Norweigan for "Sea Serpent"). Otherwise just "River Serpent". Are there any references to sea serpents in any of the books in game?

4) Baphomet - rename as "Daedric Knight" or "Daedric Soldier"? Otherwise just "Daedric Minotaur". I'd like to leave the name as open to interpretation as possible. Which realm is a minotaur-like creature likely to come from anyway - Hircine's?

5) Lilith - she's a vampire, but has Daedric-looking wings. "Daedric Vampire Priestess" seems wrong - but I can't think of anything better.

6) Drowners - I'm not sure on even including these iat all. Possibly as "Ghoul" (as seen in Arena - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:ArenaGhoul.gif). Maybe can adapt as "Drowned Ghoul" or similar?

7) All Atronachs that don't fit with known lore renamed as "------ Golem", as created by mages (see Daggerfall).

As for the variations of Giant and Falmer - I don't have a huge problem with the Giants that I've seen in the monster mod - Fire giants are stretching things a little, but maybe they're just cursed in some way? As far as I understand, Falmer are snow elves that have devolved and gone blind due to their time underground with the Dwemer. It seems plausible that the varieties added by the Monster Mod are either various stages of their devolution - or maybe they had been experimented on by the Dwemer?

-Male nature spirts could be Sylvan. No known lore that I can recall about male nature spirits, but it doesnt seem implausible.

-Werecat is fine.

-I believe Nagas are a type of snake-like Argonian, according to lore. Sjoormen is Skyrim friendly.

-If the realms of Oblivion would have a minotaur-like creature it would likely have its own name unrelated to minotaur.
Dremora knight could do the trick.

-How about ascended vampire ancient?

-Ghoul seems fine.

-Golems are lore friendly.

Id agree on the variations of Falmer, its no real stretch.
Fire giants could possible be fire shamans?

Well if it helps I kind of already did this. You are welcome to just add that threads ideas to this one and start from there. http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1368805-lore-challenge-for-an-absurd-numbers-of-additional-monsters-in-skyrim-they-must-be-renamed-as-best-as-possible/

Ah! Didn't see that thread- I noticed you offered to rename some creatures for Dogtown1 on the Nexus comments a while back, but when I searched for your comments on the Nexus earlier today I couldn't find them - and didn't know you'd actually started making the replacer - seems I beat you to it, apologies for that!

I think that the monster mod is always going to be a matter of taste, so I'm just going to go with my gut instincts and the general consensus so far, and upload a couple of versions - one strictly lore-friendly, and the other renaming some of the other creatures. Those I don't feel fit in (personal taste) I'll remove completely. If it still doesn't do what you want it to - by all means continue making your own!

Next I'll look at adjusting spawn locations to make the creatures spawn in more plausible locations for their type.

Lol I was not making the mod. Just renaming the monsters. Dogtown1 was interested in doing the rest but well....Most of his monsters kind of met the whole, nope, requirement in terms of lore friendly it seemed.

No big deal. Nice to see it happening. No swear off my back, merely linked you to help you out not to deter you or anything of the sort.

You could just screw around with the tricerotops and make it look like a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-creature-Clannfear.jpg.

Lilith could be a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-creature-Winged_Twilight.jpg.

It'd be up to Dogtown1 (the creator of the main mod) to adjust meshes/texures - I'm just creating a version to remove the lore-breaking creatures.

The issue with Lilith is that Dogtown has created her as a vampire, and she looks more like a traditional Lilith than anything specific from actual Elder Scrolls lore. Making her an ascended vampire ancient rather than a specific race seems to be best.

I've made some changes to names and updated the mod.

Baphomet - renamed as Daedra Knight
Lilith - renamed as Ascended Vampire Ancient
Daedroth - renamed as Blood Daedroth
Rot Fiend - renamed as Flesh Atronach
Drowner - renamed as Ghoul
Treant - renamed as Spriggan Patriarch
Tree Spirit - renamed as Spriggan Spirit
Sea Dragon and Sea Drake - renamed as Sjoormen
Glass Atronach - renamed as Glass Golem

Any objections, please let me know!

Some renaming ideas:

Werecat - Werelion
Bullvore Fiend - Ogrim
Nekker - Wild Hob
Drowner - Migrated Grummite
Werecat (tiger skin) - Lost Po'Tun
Gold Maiden - Ancient Falmer Lich
Dark Maiden - Nether Falmer Lich
Cursed Dragon - Mannimarco's Chosen
Dark Spirit - Possesed Corpse
Wildcat - Mountain Lion
Sea Dragon - Sea-Drake
Minotaur - Moritaur
Draugr Horror - Dread Zombie
Bone Draugr - Bonewalker
Steel Centurion - Wandering Imperfect
Wild Boar - Tusked Bristleback
Death Golem - Iron Atronach
Harpy - Werevulture
Living Flame - Fire Daedra
Baphomet - Gargoyle
Durzog - Exported Durzog
Guar - Velothi Guar
River Naga - Invasive Sheartooth
Rot Fiend - Greater Bonewalker
Lilith - Winged Twilight
Daedra - Flesh Atronach
Daedra Falmer - Scamp
Tree Spirit - Frost Daedra
Ghost Draugr - Wraith
Harpy (more humanoid version) - Daedra Seducer
Werecrocodile - Daedroth
Daedra (with an octopus mouth) - Ouada
Shade Atronach - Gloom Wraith
Treant - Emigrated Gnarl

Why would you rename the wildcat "mountain lion" when it quite clearly isn't?

Visually speaking, wouldn't it be more accurate to reverse those?
Lilith always struck me as a type of succubus and winged twilights look ridiculously close to classic ancient Greek images of harpies. Only twilights are better looking.

Just curious.

Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no such thing as a wildcat in the ES series.
Mountain lions from cyrodiil have more a chance of going northward into the province.
And thus developing a substrain of mountain lion adapted to their snowy environment.


I was making ideal corrections based on the physical appearence of the mod's creatures and past elder scroll game monsters.
Not the mythological connections. But in that case, you would be correct. However- again, it doesn't look to be the exact point.

I thought this was about renaming his myth critter list? I was referring to the physical appearance of past TES monsters.
Confused now...><

Thanks for the suggestions.



Yep, it's a balancing act - I'm removing those creatures from the mod that don't look anything like a creature from Elder Scrolls lore. If they don't look as though they belong in an Elder Scrolls game, then they're out.

Some of the creatures look similar to lore creatures, and these could be renamed.

Others, even if they don't look exactly like a depiction from previous games, could be a variation that we just haven't seen before (the mod's Daedroth is bright red so I renamed "Blood Daedroth" (http://static.skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/images/9694-1-1332590035.jpg), there's a ghostly-looking "Tree Spirit" that I renamed "Ethereal Spriggan", plus various forms of Giant and Falmer that I don't feel stretch lore too much etc.)

I don't see how Baphomet could be a Gargoyle - the only similarity to Elder Scrolls gargoyle is the wings, it's not grey-stone, and looks more like a minotaur to my eyes. The Mod actually adds what it calls a Gargoyle, made of stone, but has a cherub face (http://static.skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/images/9694-1-1334641169.jpg) and looks really out of place in Skyrim - there's nowhere nearby that has that sort of architecture for it to come from!

I like the suggestion of Drowner as Migrated Grummite - I had renamed Drowner as Ghoul in the last version.

As with all mods, there's going to be a certain amount of personal taste involved - which is why I'm trying to get as much consensus as possible, but wil go with my gut instinct if unsure.

And I'm not even getting into some of the more implausible spawn locations yet!

That thing is going to give me nightmares. Thanks..

Daedra Falmer could be a Scamp. Just shrink it a bit.

Nekkers and stuff could be bonewalkers of various make ups.

Double post...

AFAIK wildcats aren't mentioned anywhere. But Tamriel typically has all of our assorted fauna and I really don't see how adding wildcats is going to break the lore. And seriously, that looks nothing like a mountain lion.

Maybe - but won't it then just look like a small but retextured Falmer? - particularly when the current spawn locations will put it alongside other varieties of Falmer? Probably better to wait until we have a proper scamp model in the game - I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda add them with one of the DLCs, and if not I'm sure a modeller will create one.


At a stretch, possibly. The rotfiend - http://static.skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/images/9694-1-1334073145.jpg - could certainly be a greater bonewalker (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-Creature-GreaterBonewalker.jpg). I had renamed that as Flesh Atronach, but now you've reminder me of the Greater Bonewalker (more bulky and fleshy than the standard bonealker I had in my mind) I think I'll change it to Greater Bonewalker. As far as I remember, it is set to appear in lists alongside draugr, so that'd make more sense too.



Yep, I think it's best to leave as wildcat - it doesn't seem too out of place to me.

I've updated the monster mod lore-friendlier replacer as follows:

(if you have any objections please let me know - I'm on the fence regarding Drakes - we've seen Dragonlings before in lore, so we do have precedence for dragon-like creatures)

CHANGELOG from v0.6 to v0.7:
Cyclops removed (previously only Giant Cyclops was removed)
Nekker actually removed (was incorrectly labelled as removed previously)
Rotfiend renamed Greater Bonewalker (was renamed Flesh Atronach in v0.6)
Drakes and Sjoormen - removed dragon loot as they are not technically dragons.


FULL DETAILS OF v0.7:

I've simply removed the following creatures from the Monster Mod:

Triceratops
Mammoth Young
Abomination
Nekker
Bullvore
Giant Cyclops
Draco Griffon
Parasite
Cyclops

Other creatures have been renamed as follows to make lore-friendlier:

Baphomet - renamed as Daedra Knight
Lilith - renamed as Ascended Vampire Ancient
Daedroth - renamed as Blood Daedroth
Rot Fiend - renamed as Greater Bonewalker
Drowner - renamed as Ghoul
Treant - renamed as Spriggan Patriarch
Tree Spirit - renamed as Spriggan Spirit
Sea Dragon and Sea Drake - renamed as Sjoormen
Glass Atronach - renamed as Glass Golem

Loot changes: Drakes and Sjoormen - removed dragon death items (dragon bones and scales) as they are not technically dragons, and the loot is overpowered for them.