[RELz / WIPz] Reneer's Interiors Mod : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:49 am

Does your mod work with the foreign versions of Oblivion? :rolleyes:

That'd be a no, for the moment.

I saw a big mesh in the Tiber Septim hotel in the Talos Plaza district, but I was also using the Better Cities mod.
Also, and this may be unrelated, I am unable to travel to other cells of the city from that district; the game crashes to desktop when i attempt to go to the other IC districts or leave the IC.

That's certainly not related to this mod (the CTD issue, I mean). I just ran around the IC and fast-traveled to the various districts with no problem.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:47 am

That's certainly not related to this mod (the CTD issue, I mean).

Right. I'll do a more thorough test when I get home from work.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:13 am

Reneer:

hear about this mod so I just installed in a new game I am starting. Figured I do some tests for you while I build my game. I do not know if you are looking at things from added mods but so far I found this:

Faregyl Village, when going into the Inn, there is about a 10 second pause (showed array errors in the console, sorry I do not know how to capture). Anyway, finally went inside and looked out the windows. The ground was blue (as though it was water). Objects above ground seemed OK. Hope this helps.

Really nice mod BTW. I think I will stick with it even though it is not finished.

One thing would help is if there was one post that would update to show all bugs found so I do not have to read through all the posts to see if what I find was reported already. Perhaps on the opening post?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:31 am

Mind posting a screenshot? When I just went to the Bruma Fighter's Guild I did not see the castle when looking out through any of the windows.

Sure thing. Here's what I'm talking about:

[img]http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd367/mlonnemann/ScreenShot4.jpg[/img]

Taken from inside the Fighter's Guild in Bruma.

Actually, I don't think that's the castle, but the city walls. Whatever, it still isn't what should be seen.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:23 am

Sure thing. Here's what I'm talking about:

[img]http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd367/mlonnemann/ScreenShot4.jpg[/img]

Taken from inside the Fighter's Guild in Bruma.

Actually, I don't think that's the castle, but the city walls. Whatever, it still isn't what should be seen.

That's not even close to the view that I am getting: http://foxybox.kicks-ass.org/upload/ScreenShot9.jpg (however this may be because I'm running 0.94 which I haven't released yet).

What's your mod list / order look like?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:35 pm

Here's my current LO:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.0]02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]04  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]05  Harvest[Containers].esm06  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]07  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]08  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]09  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm0A  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]0B  CustomSpellIcons.esm0C  HorseCombatMaster.esm0D  HrmnsOblivionScriptOptimizationv1.0.esp**  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]**  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]0E  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.3]0F  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp10  DLCShiveringIsles.esp11  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]12  Oblivion Vwalk UOS.esp13  DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk UOS.esp14  DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk DG_DS UOS.esp15  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp16  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp17  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp18  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp19  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1A  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1B  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1C  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp1D  Ls More Butterflies and Fireflies Not In Interiors 5.0 Quarter.esp1E  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.1]1F  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.0]20  ReneerInteriorsMod.esp21  Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp22  Better Lava by elveon.esp23  Symphony of Violence.esp24  MIS Low Wind.esp25  MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp26  Atmospheric Oblivion.esp27  Louder Nirnroot Sound.esp28  Rainbows.esp29  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.1]2A  WindowLightingSystem.esp2B  Days&Months.esp2C  diversegrasses.esp2D  HUDI.esp2E  ImprovedSigns.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]2F  PTFallingStars.esp30  RAEVWD Cities.esp  [Version 1.9]31  RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp  [Version 1.5]32  RAEVWD Imperial City.esp  [Version 1.9]33  RoadSigns.esp34  Willful Resistance.esp  [Version 4.0]35  Harvest[Containers] - SI.esp36  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.1]37  Display Stats.esp  [Version 1.3.1]38  Enhanced Seasons.esp  [Version 1.3.1]39  Get Wet.esp3A  MotionBlur.esp3B  Oblivion Graphics Extender Support.esp  [Version 0.3]3C  VipCxj_RadarSystem.esp3D  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.8]3E  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.5]3F  DLCHorseArmor.esp40  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]41  Mart's Monster Mod - DLCHorseArmor+Slofs .esp  [Version 0.91]**  Book Jackets DLC.esp42  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp  [Version 4.0]43  ClassyClothingCompendium.esp44  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]45  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]46  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp47  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]48  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]49  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]4A  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]4B  VA_BetterGold.esp4C  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]4D  Better Eyja.esp4E  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul Vwalk.esp4F  RealitySpectreStars2HeavenBetterPotionsOOOEffects.esp50  Brighter Torches.esp  [Version 1.3]51  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]52  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]53  OBSE-Storms & Sound SI.esp54  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]55  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]56  FCOM_SpawnRatesReduced.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]57  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]58  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]59  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]5A  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]5B  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]5C  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]5D  wd purse of wonders.esp**  Fransfemale.esp5E  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]**  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp5F  BenirusManorRebuilt.esp60  LetThePeopleDrink.esp  [Version 2.5]61  24HrArenaAliveV2Towers.esp62  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp63  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]64  Knights.esp65  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1]66  Knights Vwalk UOP.esp67  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]68  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]69  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.1]6A  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.1]6B  ANB_Item_Switchers.esp6C  BlackScreenSneakFix.esp6D  HUD Status Bars.esp  [Version 2.0.1]6E  FewerOBGatesNOCLOSE.esp6F  Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX.esp  [Version 1.2]70  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]**  PyFFI-Optimized Vanilla Meshes Patch.esp71  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.2.0]72  Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp  [Version 1.0]73  WPHealthRegen.esp  [Version 1.0]74  RealisticHealth.esp75  Kyoma's Spell Renamer.esp  [Version 3.0.1]76  EnchantmentRestore.esp77  attack and hide easier v2.1.esp78  RenGuardOverhaul.esp79  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]7A  Duke Patricks - Double Arrow Nock Shot.esp  [Version 1.5.1a]7B  DRSplatter.esp7C  kuerteeAttributeAndSkillBasedDamageModifiers.esp7D  Duke Patricks - Everyone Or Just Vampires Now Bob And Weave.esp7E  Duke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now.esp7F  Smarter Mercantile Leveling - Multi.esp  [Version 1.65]80  nGCD.esp81  nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp82  nGCD Skeleton Key.esp83  Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp84  SP1stPLegs.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk.esp  [Version 0.76]85  Atmospheric Loading Screens - No Text.esp86  Slof's Oblivion Better Beasts.esp87  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]88  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]**  bgMagicEV Vwalk.esp89  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]8A  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]8B  bgMagicBonus.esp  [Version 1.7EV]8C  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]8D  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]8E  bgMagicPotionNumberSoulGemValue.esp  [Version 1.68UV]8F  bgBalancingEVOptionalBetterRedguards.esp90  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 10.]91  bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp  [Version 10.51EV-D]92  bgBalancingEVLAMEGlue.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D1.62EV]93  ArgonianFeets.esp94  MRP - Loading area.esp95  BetterExplosions.esp**  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]96  bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp  [Version 1.68]97  Faction Rank Fix.esp98  MiniMap.esp99  DeadlyReflex 6 - Combat Moves.esp9A  Script Effect Icon Replacer and Sound Disabler.esp  [Version 1.0]9B  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp9C  Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp9D  Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp9E  Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp9F  Kvatch Rebuilt Vwalk.espA0  KvatchRankFix.esp**  CoreRandmonClothing4Npcs.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.1]A1  Bashed Patch, 0.espA2  Streamline 3.1.esp

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:30 am

I think it would be better to just put the invisible item in the buildings that don't have windows since for one more buildings have windows then don't and second it keeps the mod working with mods that are no longer updated. ex. Put item called "thisbuildingdoesnthavewindows" in buildings that don't have windows and turn it invisible.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:50 am

I think it would be better to just put the invisible item in the buildings that don't have windows since for one more buildings have windows then don't and second it keeps the mod working with mods that are no longer updated. ex. Put item called "thisbuildingdoesnthavewindows" in buildings that don't have windows and turn it invisible.

That would also work. Assuming interiors have windows is better (I think) than assuming they don't.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:02 am

First, I salute you for taking on such a complicated mod! Great work so far.

I've checked many different areas / buildings and haven't yet come across an issue - interiors are generally either just a little bit smaller or bigger than their exterior counterparts and not enough to cause clipping issues.

Hmm, some interiors are very similar to exteriors as far as size and shape of the actual building. However, quite a lot of them don't match. Some even have extra windows that the exterior building mesh doesn't have...I'm curious to see how this will work in your mod. I find it a little hard to believe an automated system could make things look exactly right up close by the windows. The distant stuff will be fine, but within say 3-5 feet of the windows, there might be issues. This would lead me to think some combination of automated plus manual might be needed for the best appearance. But I could be wrong and maybe everything will look just fine. I'll test soonish.

And for the record, AN 1.2, which is basically done includes all Tamriel interiors, SI Settlements, and Bliss, and only lacks the SI Crucible interiors. Crucible is 1/3 done.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:07 am

I'm definitely getting a whole lot of meshing in interiors in the Better Cities IC (which i got to work in a stable fashion while using your mod). Many buildings are totally unusable. If you'd like me to specify buildings I can but so far it's most of them.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:49 am

I have no clue what is up with the trees - I'll look into it.

If you still have the tree issue, check if you are setting their Z angle to anything other than zero,

Speedtrees don't like Z angles != 0.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:34 am

If you still have the tree issue, check if you are setting their Z angle to anything other than zero,

Speedtrees don't like Z angles != 0.

Ahh. That would be the issue. I'll add an exception into the code.

Also... anyone have some good tutorials on Wrye Bash and such? I'm entering into unknown territory (for me, at least) and I'm trying to get some mods working together.

Plus I'm getting a strange error in Wrye Bash (this error only pops up when I enable OBSE in Wrye Bash):

Spoiler

Traceback (most recent call last):  File "E:\Program Files (x86)\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion\Mopy\basher.py", line 9229, in Execute    App_Button.Execute(self,event)  File "E:\Program Files (x86)\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion\Mopy\basher.py", line 9178, in Execute    os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,exePath.s,exeArgs)OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:43 pm

Entering Vilverin I was met with a stone wall, not stairs. I disabled your mod and it was normal.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:42 am

Entering Vilverin I was met with a stone wall, not stairs. I disabled your mod and it was normal.

I'll hopefully be able to fix that for 0.94.

Edit: Created a neat little system for detecting if the mod should do anything for a given cell / building. By looking at the static meshes and their NIF paths I can figure out if the current cell is using an All Natural mesh, thus has windows, thus should have exterior stuff. This also means that we don't need to worry about basemants anymore as well!

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:53 pm

It looks like you're using an older Bash. There's a good chance your bug was fixed in a newer version, and at the very least I know v290 has a more descriptive error if that line still fails.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:41 am

It looks like you're using an older Bash. There's a good chance your bug was fixed in a newer version, and at the very least I know v290 has a more descriptive error if that line still fails.

Ahhh. I used the self-installer, but missed the update file further down on the Nexus.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:49 am

Feel free to PM me if you have further troubles or need something explained.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:41 am

That would also work. Assuming interiors have windows is better (I think) than assuming they don't.

Actually I'd say it's best to assume interiors DONT have windows and make some kind of check to see that they do. I've been into a few dungeons now and every last one has had the clutter outside copied, as well as the automatic landscape placed. Most of the time it wasn't an issue but there were some where the landscape generated about halfway up the wall of the cave making it impossible to see the ground.

The same sort of issue comes up with any non-windowed interior, and I think on balance there's way more non-windowed interiors in the game than there are with windows.

Seems to me that would then make it less risky for something to get left behind that might cause bloat too.

The "thisinteriorhaswindows" thing would also be perfect for mods that use the standard interior meshes but are actually underground. Like the Merhune's Razor DLC for one. In situations like this checking for the interior mesh path containing "allnatural" won't help you.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:01 am

Actually I'd say it's best to assume interiors DONT have windows and make some kind of check to see that they do. I've been into a few dungeons now and every last one has had the clutter outside copied, as well as the automatic landscape placed. Most of the time it wasn't an issue but there were some where the landscape generated about halfway up the wall of the cave making it impossible to see the ground.

The same sort of issue comes up with any non-windowed interior, and I think on balance there's way more non-windowed interiors in the game than there are with windows.

Seems to me that would then make it less risky for something to get left behind that might cause bloat too.

True, which is why I'm currently relying upon searching for "NIW" and "allnatural" in the NIF file path - it eliminates all the cells that All Natural / Natural Interiors don't modify. So essentially what I wrote about the mod assuming an interior has windows is incorrect now / I have seen the light.

The "thisinteriorhaswindows" thing would also be perfect for mods that use the standard interior meshes but are actually underground. Like the Merhune's Razor DLC for one. In situations like this checking for the interior mesh path containing "allnatural" won't help you.

The Mehrune's Razor DLC area is underground, but it has windows? :confused:

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:12 pm

A problem I noticed. This mod causes entering and exiting doors to have a delay. Very slight. Not even a second, but there is a delay.

A major problem is that it sometimes prevents you from unlocking a door. I ran into that issue when playing the Pale Pass quest. The door at the for won't unlock. Activate the door and the lock menu doesn't come up.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:58 am

The Mehrune's Razor DLC area is underground, but it has windows? :confused:

Yes, and that's not the only mod that uses windowed interior meshes underground. So relying only on the AN/NIW path check won't be enough. The Thieves Den DLC also uses one of the windowed ship meshes for instance.

I don't know that you'll be able to have a 100% reliable automatic method for detection. Certainly a lack of AN/NIW in a mesh path should tell you it isn't going to have transparent windows on it though.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:04 pm

Yes, and that's not the only mod that uses windowed interior meshes underground. So relying only on the AN/NIW path check won't be enough. The Thieves Den DLC also uses one of the windowed ship meshes for instance.

I don't know that you'll be able to have a 100% reliable automatic method for detection. Certainly a lack of AN/NIW in a mesh path should tell you it isn't going to have transparent windows on it though.

Basically what I was going to say. Plenty of interiors use meshes which have windows but cover the windows up or if it's a multifloor building interior, don't use the floor levels with windows as they're meant to be underground - such as using the ground floor of a Cheydinhal interior mesh for a basemant level, and blocking off the open doorway which leads to the stairs so that only the enclosed windowless section exists in-game. As seen in Better Cities Cheydinhal, with the basemant of the Twin Goblet Alehouse.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:52 am

A problem I noticed. This mod causes entering and exiting doors to have a delay. Very slight. Not even a second, but there is a delay.

A major problem is that it sometimes prevents you from unlocking a door. I ran into that issue when playing the Pale Pass quest. The door at the for won't unlock. Activate the door and the lock menu doesn't come up.

The delay can't be helped. I'll fix the lock issue for 0.94.

Yes, and that's not the only mod that uses windowed interior meshes underground. So relying only on the AN/NIW path check won't be enough. The Thieves Den DLC also uses one of the windowed ship meshes for instance.

I don't know that you'll be able to have a 100% reliable automatic method for detection. Certainly a lack of AN/NIW in a mesh path should tell you it isn't going to have transparent windows on it though.

Ok. But then my point would be that if the cell uses vanilla interior meshes that have windows that are not transparent (which I assume is the purview of AN/NIW) then the player can't see out of them anyway. Unless of course Bethesda decided to make those interior windows transparent for some odd reason.

Basically what I was going to say. Plenty of interiors use meshes which have windows but cover the windows up or if it's a multifloor building interior, don't use the floor levels with windows as they're meant to be underground - such as using the ground floor of a Cheydinhal interior mesh for a basemant level, and blocking off the open doorway which leads to the stairs so that only the enclosed windowless section exists in-game. As seen in Better Cities Cheydinhal, with the basemant of the Twin Goblet Alehouse.

Right. But the mod currently doesn't care if the interior has windows or not - only if those windows are made transparent by AN/NIW. That's the only way it currently figures out if it should work in a given interior cell (though I'm adding in support for an invisible item named "thisinteriorhaswindows" in the interior cell as well).

Perhaps I'm simply missing something here?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:46 am

The delay can't be helped. I'll fix the lock issue for 0.94.

Ok. But then my point would be that if the cell uses vanilla interior meshes that have windows that are not transparent (which I assume is the purview of AN/NIW) then the player can't see out of them anyway. Unless of course Bethesda decided to make those interior windows transparent for some odd reason.

Right. But the mod currently doesn't care if the interior has windows or not - only if those windows are made transparent by AN/NIW. That's the only way it currently figures out if it should work in a given interior cell (though I'm adding in support for an invisible item named "thisinteriorhaswindows" in the interior cell as well).

Perhaps I'm simply missing something here?

But surely AN works by swapping out the mesh in base objects, effectively a mesh replacer for meshes with windows? I don't know, I've never looked into it, but for AN to automatically work with any mod using the vanilla house interior meshes, this is the only way it could be done. In which case every time any mod uses a vanilla building interior which has windows, AN will automatically make the windows see-through, regardless of whether there would realistically have been anything to see through them. Isn't it a mesh edit to get see-through windows, not an ESP edit? The ESP edits are for the weather and to swap out the meshes in the base objects (the statics).

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:11 am

But surely AN works by swapping out the mesh in base objects, effectively a mesh replacer for meshes with windows? I don't know, I've never looked into it, but for AN to automatically work with any mod using the vanilla house interior meshes, this is the only way it could be done. In which case every time any mod uses a vanilla building interior which has windows, AN will automatically make the windows see-through, regardless of whether there would realistically have been anything to see through them. Isn't it a mesh edit to get see-through windows, not an ESP edit? The ESP edits are for the weather and to swap out the meshes in the base objects (the statics).

From what I can see, that is not how AN works (simply due to the file structure in the BSA, which is \meshes\allnatural\architecture\). So the ESP file changes the weather and the interior mesh. I looked through the AN ESM and ESP files, too. I may be missing something, though.