Repairing the Cogs of Morrowind #16

Post » Sat May 28, 2011 2:21 am

This may be beyond what you guys are willing to do but I gotta ask anyway.

Is there anyway you could allow a bow to use a Cast When Strikes enchantment, applying it to the arrow it shoots? I'm sure it's difficult, but if its possible... I'm not sure if CwS is disabled for bows in the enchantment screen but IIRC it isn't, so... Some of us make stupid mistakes.
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Markie Mark
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 10:21 am

Actually, there's quite a few fixes that I'm really not sure about...

If anyone wants to have a look at what I have on my mod list and give me a hand, I'd appreciate it:

http://btb2.free.fr/morrowind.html
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Danel
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:58 pm

What's the chance of seeing the 'missing' bound equipment being introduced by a MCP release? Is that possible? It'd just be a nice alternative to scripted spells.
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Verity Hurding
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:01 pm

What's the chance of seeing the 'missing' bound equipment being introduced by a MCP release? Is that possible? It'd just be a nice alternative to scripted spells.



Though there are indeed versions of "missing bound" fixes that use scripts / extra spell slots (potential conflicts), I've grown rather fond of this solution:

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=6883


It doesn't alter any spell slots, uses no scripts... nothing fancy or potentially conflicting! Instead, the bound gloves become bound arms, and bound boots become bound legs -- the armor ratings are the same as they were, but visually, they allow you to take up all the proper slots that a full suit should.


Actually, there's quite a few fixes that I'm really not sure about...


Off the top of my head, "Gloss Map Fix" allows for "Gloss Maps" (another technique that can be applied to meshes, like bump mapping or reflection mapping) to be displayed in-game. Originally, Morrowind culled these maps when it loaded objects for rendering, but MCP can stop that from happening and let the glossiness shine on.

Particle effects fix: On particle-d objects (like Trueflame, for example), the particle streams would only project the way they were supposed to for races of a specific height. Other race heights would cause the particle stream projection to happen incorrectly, but this fix brings them back in line.
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Anna Watts
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:38 pm

Though there are indeed versions of "missing bound" fixes that use scripts / extra spell slots (potential conflicts), I've grown rather fond of this solution:

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=6883


It doesn't alter any spell slots, uses no scripts... nothing fancy or potentially conflicting! Instead, the bound gloves become bound arms, and bound boots become bound legs -- the armor ratings are the same as they were, but visually, they allow you to take up all the proper slots that a full suit should.


That's an awesome 'fix' thanks for the link. I think I'll play around with it to see if it suits me.
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Luis Reyma
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:18 pm

Not sure it's a good idea to add a request, but I am posting in case of further development:

Could it be possible to enlarge the icons of spell effects in the right corner?

Their size is 16x16 only, very small on large screen, and they are too small to have any meaning or give any useful info, excepted their colour... If they could use the same size as regular spell icon (used on the left corner, when selecting and casting, which are 32x32), they would be more meaningful and visible, and it would be possible to customize them (graphic mod), so their meaning would be much clearer.

It's a good idea, but their UI system is always painful to work with, it might not happen.

Something that should work, but doesn't, is using the Equip function to make NPCs drink potions.
Is it possible to change this? To make NPCs/creatures drink potions using the Equip function?

It may be possible, but it seems to be a particularly niche effect which wouldn't get used much. Making a mod require MCP also is something I try to avoid.

It appears to be the "bump/reflect map local lighting" patch that causes enchanted items to display only the "magicitems" (which are totally black with a pluginless no-glow) textures when menus are toggled.

Hmm.. it must render things with a different renderstate when menus are disabled. Another one of those things that just happen for an unrelated reason.

Greetings Hrnchamd, I'd like to report a source of crashes that I think is very significant and would be really super if it could be fixed. Not sure if this has been reported before, but I do have a test case that exhibits the problem 100% of the time, so I do think it is worth bringing up.

The problem occurs when a spell is cast from a script attached to an object that is non-persistant, and the player leaves the cell while the spell is still active. 72 game hours later, the game will crash. Any savegame will be be polluted and will crash.

Here's a http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1055604 about this in the Construction Set forum. And a http://sites.google.com/site/johnmoonsugar/downloads/cast_test.7z?attredirects=0&d=1 that illustrates the problem.

The way I've found to work around it is to make the object (NPCs in the cases I've seen) that has the spell casting script on it to be persistent (for NPCs this is to set the "corpses persist" flag). Or you can go to your savegame and remove those object from their cells. Or you can attempt to find and remove the SPLM.SPDT (spell data) record in the savegame that records the active spell originated from this non-persistent object.

I suspect that this is also related to crashes that come from leaving cells where creatures have been summoned under certain circumstances. In the cases I've seen, if you equip a piece of clothing that's been enchanted with a CE spell to summon a critter, then equip it, summon the critter leave the critter in a cell while still wearing the item, then 72 hours later, perhaps depending on circumstances, if you unequip the enchanted item, the game crashes.

So, sorry to make yet another request, but I do believe that this is an important stability issue, and at least it's good to have it noted here.

I love test cases. Thanks very much. Usually the game only processes spells for the cell you're currently in, so I have to investigate more.

Here's a question...

Do any of the lighting fixes have any effect on quadratic lighting? From my experience, they don't seem to.

I just recently updated my mod list to describe what all of the fixes in version 1.6 do, and the lighting fixes are one of the few that have me totally stumped as to what they actually do.

It really depends on how dark you make the lighting more than anything else. At the edge of the light range, the light effect switches off, so if it's still appreciably bright there you will see a seam, if you're moving you'll see lighting pop-in. "Double light falloff range" increases the range, but you probably won't need it with quadratic lights.

The other lighting fix, is to avoid seams on ground tiles and bugs with player light sources. The bounding box check for lighting ground tiles was screwy. First person and third person have torches in different locations because of the different animations, but both lights were always on in each view leading to over-brightness. Finally ground meshes for lights didn't always receive lighting from other lights.
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Meghan Terry
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:10 pm

I may just quote you on that, hrsh...

Because, honestly, even with the fix I still see lots of seams on the ground. The only sure-fire fix I found was to adjust the quadratic lighting settings to this:

QuadraticValue=http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1041353-repairing-the-cogs-of-morrowind-16/4.0
QuadraticRadiusMult=1.5
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Ymani Hood
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:22 pm

Nice to see you back Hrnchamd! :twirl:

A question: is it useful for to paste reports when Morrowind crashes, for any unknown reason, or it won't be very helpful for MCP?
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helliehexx
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 5:04 am

Hrnchamd, would it be possible to support of typing Polish diacritical marks in-game? It is impossible to type them, co for example mod makers can't COC when testing their mods if a cell name is usine these letters.
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Ria dell
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:04 pm

Just curious, but would you be able to explain to me how I can increase the Map size past (-51,-64) to (51,38), to more like (-200,-100) to (51,38)?

This would be greatly appreciated

EDIT: Or would it be possible to incorporate a much larger map size in the next MCP release? And in case your wondering why, it is to incorporate the remaining regions of tamriel onto the game map, there are people working on vvardenfell, black marsh, cyrodil and skyrim, as far as im aware anyway, and i think it would be great to be able to fit them all onto the scrolling world map

EDIT2: Sorry I didn't realise you weren't taking any more requests :( Still, i think this would be a very handy change :D
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Bethany Watkin
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:30 am

Because, honestly, even with the fix I still see lots of seams on the ground. The only sure-fire fix I found was to adjust the quadratic lighting settings ...

It's more for the seams in dungeons and interiors, I can't fix all the seams in towns as Direct3D caps the number of lights per object to 8 and towns can have many more lights when you count guard torches, lighting mods, etc. Also, the default linear lighting settings cuts the light off at around 33% intensity at the light radius which is pretty obvious. Using your settings it clips at 2.7% which is better for seams yet darker overall.

A question: is it useful for to paste reports when Morrowind crashes, for any unknown reason, or it won't be very helpful for MCP?

The only helpful thing are instructions on how to force the bug to occur. Crash reports don't help beyond telling me which function crashed, they don't show enough detail.

Hrnchamd, would it be possible to support of typing Polish diacritical marks in-game? It is impossible to type them, co for example mod makers can't COC when testing their mods if a cell name is usine these letters.

It's possible to translate Alt+ to the right code, but there are lots of potential issues and you will need to spend some time testing with me. Contact me on email or MSN.

Just curious, but would you be able to explain to me how I can increase the Map size past (-51,-64) to (51,38), to more like (-200,-100) to (51,38)?

EDIT: Or would it be possible to incorporate a much larger map size in the next MCP release? And in case your wondering why, it is to incorporate the remaining regions of tamriel onto the game map, there are people working on vvardenfell, black marsh, cyrodil and skyrim, as far as im aware anyway, and i think it would be great to be able to fit them all onto the scrolling world map

1. Morrowind loses position accuracy at cells that far away, which causes bugs with gameplay.
2. I can't make the map larger without losing detail, it would break save games. It would be useless to have a huge but blurry map.
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Jhenna lee Lizama
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:52 pm

It's more for the seams in dungeons and interiors, I can't fix all the seams in towns as Direct3D caps the number of lights per object to 8 and towns can have many more lights when you count guard torches, lighting mods, etc. Also, the default linear lighting settings cuts the light off at around 33% intensity at the light radius which is pretty obvious. Using your settings it clips at 2.7% which is better for seams yet darker overall.


Actually, the increased light intensity caused by lowering the quadratic value from 16 to 4 seems to have countered that - the game seems no darker than it did under the default settings.
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Robert Garcia
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:18 pm

1. Morrowind loses position accuracy at cells that far away, which causes bugs with gameplay.
2. I can't make the map larger without losing detail, it would break save games. It would be useless to have a huge but blurry map.


What kinda bug's are we talking about?

And how exactly would you increase the map size? I can't see what would cause the map to lose detail, correct me if im wrong, but its just a case of increasing the co-ords at which the map stop's scrolling?
And you say it would break save games, would you mind explaining how?

(And FYI just so you know, its not a rude post, just a curious one :) )
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Kortknee Bell
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:38 pm

What kinda bug's are we talking about?

I read being that far away (from cell 0,0) causes everything to constantly shake like there's an earthquake.
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Bee Baby
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 3:39 am

Floating point numbers only hold a certain number of digits, and the more digits you have to the left of the decimal, the less you can have to the right of it. Since a cell has a size of 8192 points, a cell with an x grid reference of -200 would have a range of x values from -1,642,496 to -1,634,304. Float variable in Morrowind only support 7 significant digits, and you'll notice that the integer portion of that address is already 7 digits. That means that the float values would all have to be integers, which would lead to massive rounding errors and major problems with the graphics engine.
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Kirsty Collins
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:11 pm

I read being that far away (from cell 0,0) causes everything to constantly shake like there's an earthquake.


I have to say, after hearing quite alot about these glitches ive honestly not noticed a thing, i can walk around Highrock, Hammerfell and Skyrim (to scale) with no problem with the screen juttering like an eathquake. And thats all the way to x -200, y -100 and something, so i don't see why it's not possible...

Floating point numbers only hold a certain number of digits, and the more digits you have to the left of the decimal, the less you can have to the right of it. Since a cell has a size of 8192 points, a cell with an x grid reference of -200 would have a range of x values from -1,642,496 to -1,634,304. Float variable in Morrowind only support 7 significant digits, and you'll notice that the integer portion of that address is already 7 digits. That means that the float values would all have to be integers, which would lead to massive rounding errors and major problems with the graphics engine.


:goodjob: Whatever that means.....
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Amanda savory
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 5:42 am

I read being that far away (from cell 0,0) causes everything to constantly shake like there's an earthquake.

You mean while the game is loading a new area?
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Nikki Lawrence
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 9:01 am

I have to say i haven't noticed any graphical errors at all whilst strolling around where Skyrim would be. Nor Hammerfell or Highrock for that matter.

Hrnchamd, please excuse me if you think im sounding rude. But what is it exactly which causes the map to appear blurred when the map boundaries are extended?

You may be swayed to give this a go if I show you a video of my plans :)

Anyone interested?

Floating point numbers only hold a certain number of digits, and the more digits you have to the left of the decimal, the less you can have to the right of it. Since a cell has a size of 8192 points, a cell with an x grid reference of -200 would have a range of x values from -1,642,496 to -1,634,304. Float variable in Morrowind only support 7 significant digits, and you'll notice that the integer portion of that address is already 7 digits. That means that the float values would all have to be integers, which would lead to massive rounding errors and major problems with the graphics engine.

And sorry, i did understand exactly what you said, I just found it amusing you went into such detail :)
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Blackdrak
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:17 pm

I have to say ive not noticed any graphical errors atall whilst strolling around where Skyrim would be. Nor Hammerfell or Highrock.

But what are you strolling around on? Are you just floating through the empty sky, or are you surrounded by statics, NPCs, lights, creatures, etc. ?
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jaideep singh
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 9:18 am

Landmass mainly, but Skyrim has alot of statics on it at the moment. Whereas Hammerfell and Highrock are completely covered in trees. Just one kind of tree, for an idea of the scale

http://rapidshare.com/files/313486496/HAMMERFEL_HIGHROCK_SKYRIM.wmv

^^^ ^^^
For those who are interested

And just so you know, land has been updated since this video, merging the three landmasses correctly, and trees have also been added
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Julia Schwalbe
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:54 pm

What kinda bug's are we talking about?

And how exactly would you increase the map size? I can't see what would cause the map to lose detail, correct me if im wrong, but its just a case of increasing the co-ords at which the map stop's scrolling?
And you say it would break save games, would you mind explaining how?

(And FYI just so you know, its not a rude post, just a curious one :) )

At (-200, x), that far away everything moves in steps of around 2-3 cm. It is most likely to cause problems with NPC movement and collision detection, or problems with gaps between statics. You must test NPCs and pathgrids and everything to be sure it works well.

The map is a fixed size texture for the whole world, which is updated as you play and stored in your savegame. A larger world means that map must have a smaller scale, or blurry if you keep the same scale. Small scale maps lack useful detail, it just becomes a picture instead of a good tool to navigate. I don't change the texture size because it breaks compatibility with the savegame format. Instead I changed the hardcoded way the cells are rendered into the texture, and how the location pointer worked.
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TWITTER.COM
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:53 pm

Landmass mainly, but Skyrim has alot of statics on it at the moment. Whereas Hammerfell and Highrock are completely covered in trees. Just one kind of tree, for an idea of the scale

http://rapidshare.com/files/313486496/HAMMERFEL_HIGHROCK_SKYRIM.wmv

^^^ ^^^
For those who are interested

And just so you know, land has been updated since this video, merging the three landmasses correctly, and trees have also been added


Nevermind
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Shianne Donato
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:23 pm

No-one is interested I take it?
8 Downloads and no comments :P

And at Hrnchamd, would you mind making a patch to make a "save game breaking" :) map border increaser? Just wanna test it out, and it would be greatly appreciated if you would.
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lacy lake
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:55 pm

At (-200, x), that far away everything moves in steps of around 2-3 cm. It is most likely to cause problems with NPC movement and collision detection, or problems with gaps between statics. You must test NPCs and pathgrids and everything to be sure it works well.



Is this in theory or have people actually seen these results? I keep hearing this but at Soulrest in Argonia in a full constructed cell I've yet to see a single problem ever. :shrug:
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Eliza Potter
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 4:15 am

I would love to download it, but Rapidshare doesn't work well with my ISP - there is always someone already downloading at my IP address. *chuckle* And this thread probably isn't the best place to show off your work on a mod or get comments on it.
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latrina
 
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