Repairing the Cogs of Morrowind No. 17

Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:19 pm

Do I understand you correctly that there is no chance to "remove" MW limitation on bone names and numbers?

And another question/request: PlayGroup/LoopGroup animation scripting functions are not working properly/reliably for NPCs ? legs are animated, upper body parts not. Do you think that it might be possible to fix that in the frame of you project?

It's more about body parts there, actually (I didn't mean bones specifically). Maybe it's possible to change bones, but it needs a rewrite of some parts of the engine, I need animations to test it with really. Animation is directly controlled by AI, some actions require animations to finish before continuing .. so changes can easily break AI, which I don't understand well enough.
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Etta Hargrave
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:36 am

I am not sure that I understand you answer.

Bone names. There is a list of available/valid in MW names of bones for PC/NPC: e.g. "Bip01 Spine2" is OK but "Bip01 Spine3" is not. There is no such limitation for bone names for MW creatures.

Animations. With AIWander function it is always possible to call some Idles (3-9), e.g. Idle9 but "PlayGroup Idle9" call results in corrupted animation (upper body part is not animated). This is usually observed, but in some cases I am able to see sometimes few "normal" animation using this mod, "NPC Animation Explorer" (it uses PlayGroup/LoopGroup scripting functions, some animations are also corrupted):

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mad_weather/animexp.htm

:)
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Nicola
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:46 am

I don't know if this is caused by the patch or if it's my resolution, but my world map shows me in Solsthiem when I'm actually on the mainland. Would the map increase for TR fix that issue or should I lower my resolution? It's at 1920x1080 right now. Thanks.

[edit]: Nvm. Adding in the zoom ability of the TR patch seems to allow me the ability to reset the map by zooming out, closing the map and reopening it. I'd like to be able to use it without having to do this, but seeing as how it'll work with some tweaking, it's a minor error. Thanks again for all that you've done on this, Hrnchamd.
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Mari martnez Martinez
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:28 pm

Greetings Hrnchamd, I'd like to report a source of crashes that I think is very significant and would be really super if it could be fixed. Not sure if this has been reported before, but I do have a test case that exhibits the problem 100% of the time, so I do think it is worth bringing up.

The problem occurs when a spell is cast from a script attached to an object that is non-persistant, and the player leaves the cell while the spell is still active. 72 game hours later, the game will crash. Any savegame will be be polluted and will crash.

Here's a http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1055604 about this in the Construction Set forum. And a http://sites.google.com/site/johnmoonsugar/downloads/cast_test.7z?attredirects=0&d=1 that illustrates the problem.

The way I've found to work around it is to make the object (NPCs in the cases I've seen) that has the spell casting script on it to be persistent (for NPCs this is to set the "corpses persist" flag). Or you can go to your savegame and remove those object from their cells. Or you can attempt to find and remove the SPLM.SPDT (spell data) record in the savegame that records the active spell originated from this non-persistent object.

I suspect that this is also related to crashes that come from leaving cells where creatures have been summoned under certain circumstances. In the cases I've seen, if you equip a piece of clothing that's been enchanted with a CE spell to summon a critter, then equip it, summon the critter leave the critter in a cell while still wearing the item, then 72 hours later, perhaps depending on circumstances, if you unequip the enchanted item, the game crashes.

So, sorry to make yet another request, but I do believe that this is an important stability issue, and at least it's good to have it noted here.

I've discovered where this bug comes from finally. The game creates a spell entity at the start of an NPC casting animation, then (if ranged) attaches a projectile after the casting animation finishes. If you leave the cell while the casting animation is still playing, the spell entity never gets cleaned up. The spell is waiting for the NPC to finish the animation, 72 hours later the NPC goes away and it crashes.

It's not so simple to fix, you can't clear the list on any cell change, because spells shouldn't disappear when you cross an exterior cell boundary, just when the NPC is no longer active. There's no reliable way to detect this, that I have found so far. If the test goes wrong then NPCs would fail to cast spells. There's probably something somewhere.
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Kayleigh Williams
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:20 am

Hi Hrnchamd - it's kind of reassuring to see you still around :)

I have a question re CTD's - I have the latest version of MCP running

Am currently doing some testing of a mod of mine - this was a new game withI only 2 mods running and tribunal, after about 2 hrs game play I got a CTD at Seyda Neen lighthouse - no real biggie but I was wondering if MCP generates a bug report when there is a CTD? I couldn't find a wanings text in my directory so have no idea what caused the CTD?

According to the journal entries I was about 72hrs into the game - day 3

I have been carrying around the Devil Spear from Balmora and using it fairly extensively day 2 and 3 doing a mudcrab hunt - this enchanted spear also has a bound spear spell as well as a variable lightning shield

After reading John's post above was unsure if there was a connection?
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Marquis T
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:40 am

It's very nice to see new improvements! :thumbsup:

Just reporting a very minor bug:

The sound (play music) bug has been fixed long time ago, but the main sound control (in options) still have a strange behaviour: if you reduce all the sounds to zero, including the main sound, when playing Morrowind you'll still hear hit sounds from time to time (i.e. when NPC are striking, when hitting a light armor or shield).

I also noticed that Morrowind does not remind the setting of the main sound in options when you quit and relaunch the game (it does keep in memory settings for others sounds: effects, steps, music).
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Laura Tempel
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:47 am

Am currently doing some testing of a mod of mine - this was a new game withI only 2 mods running and tribunal, after about 2 hrs game play I got a CTD at Seyda Neen lighthouse - no real biggie but I was wondering if MCP generates a bug report when there is a CTD? I couldn't find a wanings text in my directory so have no idea what caused the CTD?

According to the journal entries I was about 72hrs into the game - day 3

I have been carrying around the Devil Spear from Balmora and using it fairly extensively day 2 and 3 doing a mudcrab hunt - this enchanted spear also has a bound spear spell as well as a variable lightning shield

That bug john mentioned only occurs when you leave a cell while an NPC is doing its casting animation, it's not related to personal spell effects or enchantments. NPC references are cleaned up if you haven't seen them for 72 hours; it could be a script reference expiring for example. MCP doesn't generate an automatic bug report (it's not very useful), the most useful thing is instructions on how to make it crash at the same point. If you always crash after waiting for 72 hours it would be interesting.
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Fiori Pra
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:20 pm

The sound (play music) bug has been fixed long time ago, but the main sound control (in options) still have a strange behaviour: if you reduce all the sounds to zero, including the main sound, when playing Morrowind you'll still hear hit sounds from time to time (i.e. when NPC are striking, when hitting a light armor or shield).

I also noticed that Morrowind does not remind the setting of the main sound in options when you quit and relaunch the game (it does keep in memory settings for others sounds: effects, steps, music).

Now I look at it again, I found what is causing all the loud sounds when armour is hit. There is an integer overflow bug where it calculates the volume for a hit, and it only happens when the volume sliders are below maximum. It wraps around from quiet to full volume.. I think they were trying to reduce the volume by adding some quick hack, but it had obvious bad consequences. It's all fixed now. Also Morrowind forgets to copy the master volume to the correct place after reading it, which is fixable too.
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ashleigh bryden
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:00 am

Now I look at it again, I found what is causing all the loud sounds when armour is hit. There is an integer overflow bug where it calculates the volume for a hit, and it only happens when the volume sliders are below maximum. It wraps around from quiet to full volume.. I think they were trying to reduce the volume by adding some quick hack, but it had obvious bad consequences. It's all fixed now. Also Morrowind forgets to copy the master volume to the correct place after reading it, which is fixable too.


Many thanks for fixing this bug! Will you be uploading the fix before the next official release?
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darnell waddington
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:42 pm

Please test http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26348

- john.moonsugar's bug should be gone
- Master volume control position is remembered
- Armor shouldn't go clonk when effects volume is low

If anyone has MW animation files with extraneous bones, it would save me some time.
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Queen of Spades
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:26 pm

If anyone has MW animation files with extraneous bones, it would save me some time.


Of cause I have numerous but these bones are renamed to correct, MW valid names. I can rename them in NiFScope to the names suggested by you. BTW, bones should be also renamed in corresponding meshes (body/clothes/armor nifs). Here is a picture of one of my early tests (briast bones, simple test):

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n45/AxelIP/ScreenShot319.jpg

The BB mesh is nvde and I cannot post that here.

Actually any bone in any MW animation/mesh can be renamed in NifScope.

:)
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christelle047
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:32 am

Now I look at it again, I found what is causing all the loud sounds when armour is hit. There is an integer overflow bug where it calculates the volume for a hit, and it only happens when the volume sliders are below maximum. It wraps around from quiet to full volume.. I think they were trying to reduce the volume by adding some quick hack, but it had obvious bad consequences. It's all fixed now. Also Morrowind forgets to copy the master volume to the correct place after reading it, which is fixable too.

You are a genius... (or an alien!) Fantastic! :trophy:

I am installing the beta 2 for testing purpose.
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R.I.P
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:17 am

Test for sound fix (loud armor & shield fix) done:
- the Master sound volume is now correctly recorded when relaunching the game. Fixed !
- there are still a few sound playing when all sound volumes are set to 0: when NPCs using weapons to strike (short blade for example), torches (when in hand by guards), creatures moving (Cliff Racer's wings, Nix-Hound's steps, etc.).
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Evaa
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:23 am

- there are still a few sound playing when all sound volumes are set to 0: when NPCs using weapons to strike (short blade for example), torches (when in hand by guards), creatures moving (Cliff Racer's wings, Nix-Hound's steps, etc.).

This is strange, when I turn the volumes to zero I hear none of that, except torch sounds from statics which use a different sound function to everything else.
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Catherine N
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:44 pm

This is strange, when I turn the volumes to zero I hear none of that, except torch sounds from statics which use a different sound function to everything else.

I'll try to reapply the patch then and see if it always happens (I will edit this post for the test result).
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remi lasisi
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:42 pm

Oh this is going to be fun.
Just looking at a Telvanni housepod I slapped a quick and dirty gloss map on.

Alpha sorting is a problem with enchanted items though (isn't it always?). Much tweaking of Alpha properties is going to be needed for some clothing meshes.
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Jonny
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:15 pm

Here is a video I recorded showing thread loading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2aQTQRBjcw

After some tests with it, I managed to lower stutters to non-existing levels. But there was still some pauses. I decided to do some tests and got weird results.

Now in above video,

you can see top row is loaded, so I started to move north and this weird thing happened. The game loaded the cells behind me!!! And the cells in front of me were unloaded!!! If I continued to move forward the cells just unloaded and new row at the top would be loaded at the same time causing the big PAUSE/STUTTER. I moved back and forth and this weird thing happened again and again. Now you can see when I moved right at the end, the new cells were loaded just like a breeze.

This weird behavior happens according to thread suspended combination.

[L T LT] [L T LT]


The weird algorithm decides not to activate thread loading for T(top) for unknown reasons. If the algorithm didn't shoot itself in the leg, it would possibly didn't show [L T LT] [L T LT] when I was moving towards north but R B something.

I don't know maybe I can't see the genius behind it, but if you ask me there is something wrong. It has the favor for suspending most of the time. And with those wrong behaviors it tries to load 2 rows/columns of cells at the same time which is causing the stutter and pause.

I think it can do the same when I'm moving towards east at the end for all times, if the algorithm can be fixed...

Hrnchamd?

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Amanda Furtado
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:01 am

Relax, the togglegrid display is just upside down compared to the map; check the cell coordinates.
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Bek Rideout
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:01 pm

:eek: :facepalm:

Edit: This game is driving me nuts. :rofl:
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chloe hampson
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:11 pm

Tell me about it.

Anyone got some reproducible cases for any inventory bugs? I've found one where equipping things with script/hotkey can cause doubling, but I can't get the soul gem one from the last thread to occur.
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BrEezy Baby
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:51 pm

Tell me about it.

Anyone got some reproducible cases for any inventory bugs? I've found one where equipping things with script/hotkey can cause doubling, but I can't get the soul gem one from the last thread to occur.

Why o why this guys do everything the wrong way? I can't imagine what you go through to just understand what they are up to. Maybe Morrowind engine is written by aliens.

So algorithm is just fine. It is not the new cell loadings, but unloadings that cause the problems?

It is not the buffers, I can set them higher in ini. But it doesn't use all buffers anyway.

PS. Ever heard of a movie called Doppelganger(1969). Also known as "Journey to the Far Side of the Sun". One of the best science fiction films ever. Proves Morrowind is alien. :)
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matt oneil
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:40 pm

I've made more tests for sounds, disabling and re-applying the fix... I still have several fight sounds and step sounds, with both creatures and NPC (for example, try a fight with Balmora's Hlaluu guards).
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sarah simon-rogaume
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:57 am

What happens if you set the volumes to slightly above minimum (maybe 5%)?

I guess the stutter on cell load is because the game has to upload the new textures for three cells to the graphics card, which can't be multithreaded on dx8 and further causes a rendering stall. Secondly the cells need to be rendered to a texture to provide the minimap, which actively pulls all the textures through the pipe. Leaving the createmaps flag on also slows things down.
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cassy
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:59 pm

The bug where enchanted items go black when menus are toggled off with tm, I've confirmed it as a bug in MGE.
(wrapperclasses.cpp, line 420)>> RealDevice->SetRenderState(D3DRS_DESTBLEND, D3DBLEND_INVSRCALPHA);

Morrowind reads back the blend state to check if it needs changing, but the wrapper can give the wrong information after a call to Present. CurrentDestBlend should be updated along with the call here. Similar state changes should be reviewed.

Should I add a complementary patch to MCP for it too? I doubt the bugfix is going to get backported to earlier revisions and people are having stability problems over in the MGE thread.
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I’m my own
 
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Post » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:27 pm

Please test http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26348


I'm currently getting a file not found error on http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file/files.php?id=26348 when I click on the MCP beta link. Can anyone else access it at the moment?
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Jacob Phillips
 
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