Repairing the Cogs of Morrowind No. 20

Post » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:21 am

The real use of the enchant skill, should be to make enchanted items.


I disagree entirely. Clearly, the real use of the alchemy skill is to make alchemy items. However, the real use of the alteration, conjuration, destruction, illusion, mysticism and restoration skills are NOT to make spells, but to learn how to use them effectively. One could argue that the alchemy skill does allow the player to see what effects a reagent has, but unless the player is intending to make a potion, that information really isn't very useful.

Personally, I've always felt that the enchant skill is far more like the schools of magic than the alchemy skill. Yes, one CAN use it to create an enchanted item, but I don't see that as its primary usage. If it were, it would need to be a lot more effective. The point of the skill is to learn how to effectively use and recharge enchantment based magics, just as the point of the schools of magic is to learn how to successfully use spell-based magics. With the alchemy skill, one very rarely fails to create a potion at a skill of 100. With the armorer skill, one very rarely fails to repair an item at a skill of 100. With the security skill, one very rarely fails to pick a lock or disarm a trap at a skill of 100. The enchant skill isn't like any of those. It fails miserably at a skill of 100... frequently. If creating magic items is truly its primary purpose, its usefulness as a skill is nearly worthless.

I understand that the patches are optional and nobody is required to install this patch if they don't want to. I just thought I'd point out a differing perspective on the "real" use of the enchant skill. It is without doubt a matter of opinion, not one of fact.
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Lucy
 
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Post » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:02 pm

Yeah, that's a little weird. I agree.
However, one spell being easy to put on a ring doesn't mean Enchant is totally broken. :)

After all, if he does change charge costs, he still has to make sure it's balanced for every single magic spell in the game.
Also, how many enchantment points is that Storm Atronarch, anyway?
How many seconds can you summon him for?

Because every time I've tried to make a constant effect summon anything beyond a dremora, they tend to be a bit expensive enchantment point wise. Like, can't even be put on a Daedric Tower Shield.

I have 4 exquisite rings, and each of them is enchanted with a golden saint's soul (400 points). Summoning a Storm Atronach for 60 seconds, costs to me just 11 points....
So, I can summon about 120 Storm Atronach during a fight... 4 of them at the same moment.
While having a higher Conjuration skill, gives me more chances to summon a creature, but not a minor cost to summon it, a higher enchant skill can allow me to use more often than others enchanted items.
Moreover, Magicka regenerates only if I get some sleep, while the enchanted items recharge automatically.

I disagree entirely. Clearly, the real use of the alchemy skill is to make alchemy items. However, the real use of the alteration, conjuration, destruction, illusion, mysticism and restoration skills are NOT to make spells, but to learn how to use them effectively. One could argue that the alchemy skill does allow the player to see what effects a reagent has, but unless the player is intending to make a potion, that information really isn't very useful.

I understand that the patches are optional and nobody is required to install this patch if they don't want to. I just thought I'd point out a differing perspective on the "real" use of the enchant skill. It is without doubt a matter of opinion, not one of fact.


I can't imagine how the 80 enchant skill of a wizard, can make him know how to use more times a fireball ring than another wizard that has just only 50 enchant.
It is a fireball ring, that has its own power in it.
Think of the enchanted weapons... Imagine a sword that has a flame around it. You have just to attack. I can't imagine how a warrior can use more fire strikes with his firesword than another warrior....


Personally, I've always felt that the enchant skill is far more like the schools of magic than the alchemy skill. Yes, one CAN use it to create an enchanted item, but I don't see that as its primary usage. If it were, it would need to be a lot more effective. The point of the skill is to learn how to effectively use and recharge enchantment based magics, just as the point of the schools of magic is to learn how to successfully use spell-based magics. With the alchemy skill, one very rarely fails to create a potion at a skill of 100. With the armorer skill, one very rarely fails to repair an item at a skill of 100. With the security skill, one very rarely fails to pick a lock or disarm a trap at a skill of 100. The enchant skill isn't like any of those. It fails miserably at a skill of 100... frequently. If creating magic items is truly its primary purpose, its usefulness as a skill is nearly worthless.


In fact, I turned from 3 to 250 the gameSetting that influence the chance to make an enchanted item. So, at 100 enchant, you have reasonable chances to enchant an exquisite ring, that is the most difficult item to fully enchant.
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Roy Harris
 
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Post » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:44 pm

I can't imagine how the 80 enchant skill of a wizard, can make him know how to use more times a fireball ring than another wizard that has just only 50 enchant.


Yep. There's your problem. You can't imagine it.

I can. I don't see an enchanted ring as a magical revolver that shoots out a spell when you pull the trigger. Neither do I see recharging the item with a soul gem as changing the ammo clip. I guess its a perceptual thing.
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Taylor Tifany
 
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Post » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:40 am

I just made a steam install of MW to replace my old install and am having a problem with Codepatch. I have uninstalled the original and started a new game with the steam version. I started a vanilla game with no problem, made a save and installed MGE. Still OK. Then I added Codepatch and as soon as I run the exe I get an insert CD error. The original post says it's compatible with steam but is there something special that must be done? I would appreciate any advice since I'd rather not play without Codepatch; I've really come to like it.
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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:05 am

I've extracted a list of what the AI spell selection regards as offensive spells:

Burden
Fire Damage - Shock Damage - Frost Damage - Poison
Drain Attribute - Drain Health - Drain Magicka - Drain Fatigue - Drain Skill
Damage Attribute - Damage Health - Damage Magicka - Damage Fatigue - Damage Skill
Weakness To Fire - Weakness To Frost - Weakness To Shock - Weakness To Magicka
Weakness To Common Disease - Weakness To Blight Disease - Weakness To Corprus Disease
Weakness To Poison - Weakness To Normal Weapons
Disintegrate Weapon - Disintegrate Armor
Paralyze - Silence - Blind - Sound - Soultrap
Absorb Attribute - Absorb Health - Absorb Magicka - Absorb Fatigue - Absorb Skill
Turn Undead

Of course you will need to test everything first, as this is not the whole of the spell selection criteria.


So, that's pretty much all of them... including several that really aren't that effective when used against you.

What about restoration and conjuration spells?
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ladyflames
 
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Post » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:11 pm

I just made a steam install of MW to replace my old install and am having a problem with Codepatch. I have uninstalled the original and started a new game with the steam version. I started a vanilla game with no problem, made a save and installed MGE. Still OK. Then I added Codepatch and as soon as I run the exe I get an insert CD error. The original post says it's compatible with steam but is there something special that must be done? I would appreciate any advice since I'd rather not play without Codepatch; I've really come to like it.

It shouldn't change any of the CD code. Are you running MCP as admin? Does the problem go away when you uninstall MCP?


So, that's pretty much all of them... including several that really aren't that effective when used against you.

What about restoration and conjuration spells?

NPCs will cast a spell with a summon creature/weapon effect first if they don't have one active. Not sure I see any flags for restoration effects, they rely on potions I suppose.
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Romy Welsch
 
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Post » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:53 am

Are you running MCP as admin?



*whacks forehead* uh, no.
That seems to do it, sorry for taking your time.
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(G-yen)
 
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Post » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:44 pm

NPCs will cast a spell with a summon creature/weapon effect first if they don't have one active. Not sure I see any flags for restoration effects, they rely on potions I suppose.


Interesting... of all the NPC-only spells I added to my mod, I never imagined it would be the restore health ones that never got used.

I'm operating under the assumption that one of the primary factors that influence the spellcasting decisions of NPCs is their skill levels. NPCs with high Destruction skills will cast Destruction spells, NPCs with high Alteration skills will cast burden, etc. Is this true?

Also, so long as we're on the subject, is it likely that the MCP will be able to influence this behavior?
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Lucky Boy
 
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