Repairing the Cogs of Morrowind #21

Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:13 am

I have to report a problem that isn't really a problem of the vanilla game but obviously caused by the MCP

Hash Map Collisions

I run multiple MW copies on my PC, I mod with an unpatched version and play with a patched version. Some members reported error messages using the CS in the patched version, I tested it a few weeks ago and got the same errors...it didn't apper in InGame (video below) but as soon as you try to open the ESM and load a cell in the CS (Patched Gaming Copy) you will get loads of Hash Map Collsion Errors...the strangest part is even for objects that have been sorted out and don't exist in the current version of the Master File (For example "Hash Map Collision between Sky_TerrRock_04_004 and Sky_TerrRock_04_104" (04_104 was deleted month ago))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4GcYaJFgh8

I have no idea what cause the Hash Map Collision Problem, esspecially that it didn't happen in the unpatched version...also I don't have a clue why the CS act weird if the Exe is patched.


@ Hrnchamd

If you are interested in fixing those Hash Map Issues in your next version of the MCP I could give you access to the current Version of the Skyrim Exterior Claim for the upcoming release for your own testings.
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sw1ss
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:05 am

I have to report a problem that isn't really a problem of the vanilla game but obviously caused by the MCP

Hash Map Collisions

I run multiple MW copies on my PC, I mod with an unpatched version and play with a patched version. Some members reported error messages using the CS in the patched version, I tested it a few weeks ago and got the same errors...it didn't apper in InGame (video below) but as soon as you try to open the ESM and load a cell in the CS (Patched Gaming Copy) you will get loads of Hash Map Collsion Errors...the strangest part is even for objects that have been sorted out and don't exist in the current version of the Master File (For example "Hash Map Collision between Sky_TerrRock_04_004 and Sky_TerrRock_04_104" (04_104 was deleted month ago))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4GcYaJFgh8

I have no idea what cause the Hash Map Collision Problem, esspecially that it didn't happen in the unpatched version...also I don't have a clue why the CS act weird if the Exe is patched.


@ Hrnchamd

If you are interested in fixing those Hash Map Issues in your next version of the MCP I could give you access to the current Version of the Skyrim Exterior Claim for the upcoming release for your own testings.



That is wierd, I thought the CS was its own .exe, why would the morrowind.exe being patched effect it?
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Cheville Thompson
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:27 pm

That is wierd, I thought the CS was its own .exe, why would the morrowind.exe being patched effect it?


No idea why, it an issue that is also a riddle to me...maybe it don't happen on Vanilla Morrowind Rocks cause no region on Vvardenfell use over 100 different rock meshes, cause always a number higher than 100 is involved in a Hash Map Collision.

Significant is that those errors only happen with the MCP and are only noticable in the CS, not in game.

Here is the proof:

http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx304/LestatDeLioncourt1872/AG_NoMCP.jpg

http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx304/LestatDeLioncourt1872/AG_MCP.jpg
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KRistina Karlsson
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:47 pm

Replies, Part 1

I came across this thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1112581-base-attack-damage page__p__16349873__fromsearch__1&#entry16349873 and wondered if this could be something that the MCP could look into?

To crack the thread in a nut shell, its about creature base damage not being added to weapon base damage, if the creature uses a weapon.

Now, I know that your thinking why would a creature's attack be added to weapon attack - well two reasons: 1) Bethesda designed creatures that way but it doesnt work and 2) I think that at least a small portion of the attack should be transered over. A dremora for example doesnt really have "natural weapons" like a for example a guar, but it still has base attacks.

While this ensures that if the creature doesnt have a weapon, it still has an attack - I dont think there are any dremora or golden saints that dont carry a weapon.

I dunno, it would be an asthetic thing, and it certinaly would make the game a bit harder - which isnt always a bad thing. perhaps you could make it an optional "patch like some of the other patches you have done??

Modifying creature strength should affect wielded weapon damage. Unless testing shows otherwise I don't think it needs a patch.


Something else you might want to peruse if you have a few spare moments, Hrch:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1115268-regarding-flagging-a-cell-as-illegal-to-sleep-here/page__view__findpost__p__16374391

Yeah, the reloader reversion can't really handle it if the active mod list isn't the same as the save game. It's unlikely to get fixed because it's a structural issue.


I happen to dislike the lowered number of arrows enchanted per soulgem charge now... is there a way for me to have the older ammount of soulgem charges per arrow 400 charges to 400 arrows and have all the other options?

I do happen to like the other changes though I just don't like the ammount of money I have to spend buying grand soul gems to get only 100 enchanted arrows when I spent time hunted ascended sleapers...

I take the position that enchanted arrows are less than common around Morrowind. NPCs rarely have them, and no more than 5-25 at most, about the same as you can make from a common soulgem. I don't want to make normal arrows into lower tier junk. Though I accept people use magical melee weapons all the time, high strength coupled with a high base damage tends to provide most of the punch for those. It should also be economically more efficient to trade a filled grand soulgem for several lower tier ones.


The bug with inventory is still there.
I did the tax collector murderer mission and it said she took the ring and when I closed the dialogue it was still in my inventory.
None of my mods have anything to do with that item and my saves were as clean as they could get.

It's hard to test this bug. It doesn't do it right after a load. I have to play a bit before I see it, and it can affect anything leaving my inventory other than dropping it.
I just tried reinstalling Morrowind with MCP 1.8 and am looking to see if that did anything.

The inventory patch fixed some problems with equipping things like companion rings and keychains that cause the bug. There's other things that screw up the inventory display, barter with a vendor will usually reset it. You have to find out if there's any mods you use that may equip or temporary equip other stuff, like quivers or sheathes, and test if any of those are responsible. I hardly ever see it so it's very difficult to fix.


It feels kinda silly to have say 20 stacks of 25 arrows with the same exact name, base arrow, and enchantment effect settings...

The enchant system wasn't built to make lots of copies of the same item. If you have 20 stacks of the same thing, maybe you should carry less and add a little variation to the enchantments you use. I'm not sure how many people can carry 500 arrows into battle; rarely are there hordes to fight. Two bundles of poison, fire, and shock, and a complement of normal arrows for the unworthy, may be enough.


Hi Hrnchamd - were you able to fix the issue with bumpmap/reflective local lighting for Phijama's meshes?

Unfortunately not, I'm having problems detecting how the textures are set up in that case. It might be best to release a version with a 4x4 base texture added to those meshes.


Just a note about enchanting in the current version. I notice that now, if I spend about 150 gold to buy 25 steel darts worth 6 gold each, and I take a common soul gem filled with a scamp that is valued at 300 gold and use it to enchant those darts with a destruction spell like shock, I end up with 25 enchanted darts that do 4 to 7 damage, but are now worth 13 gold each.

In other words, i improved the capabilities of my darts, but they are now worth 325 gold, or some 1/3 less than the value of materials I used. Sounds like a government project to me... or socialist economics... :).

It's comparable to the other enchanted missiles. Anyway, economies don't work like that! You could produce 10000 arrows of cure disease, they aren't really worth more than the a base arrow. The real lower bound is the smallest soul gem plus service charges, 5 gold? for a mudcrab is about the difference between the enchanted dart and the unenchanted one.


I got an request (if you have time) it may be not doable,
Ok as i like to developing new modding techniques for the benefit of our Holy Morrowind Empire Community?
I tried to remake some stuff including animated textures and multiple UV maps
http://img97.imageshack.us/i/13752269.jpg/
That red molten part on the chest is animated with NiUVController node, the model itself has multiple UVmaps so i could sepatare that scrolling molten effect from rest of model, while it looks good in nifskope it dont work well in game.
First: NiUVController don't work on skinned meshes (nothing works with the skinned meshes in this game :brokencomputer:) , so i unrigged the mesh just see at least if the animation works, while this time animation played, it was not looking as it supposed. In nifskope NiUVController was animating the first UVset (0 the flames) without affecting the second set (1 that includes base texture with alpha layer, that gives shape to the molten effect). In the game the UVscrolling animation was affecting both UV sets totaly breaking my effect. It looks bit compliced but thats how it looks like.

nothing works with the skinned meshes in this game

You got it. Morrowind just isn't a scrolling UV kind of place.


My current main issues with the game that would be nice to see fixed:

Drain - it should not be possible to restore drain effects, that's what dispel/cure disease is for.

Option for a 24 hour clock would be nice.

Enchanting/Spellmaking - by default when making "cast when used" items it makes the "on touch" type. If you make "on target" or "on self" spell and then before hitting the buy button you decide to make the revisions to the spell, it reverts back to "on touch" type. Sometimes you just forget to set it back and end up with ruined item, soulgem and lost money.

I agree on the drain, but I don't think the game is well coded enough to allow that to work. I'll try to fix editing the spell effects soon.
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Romy Welsch
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:53 am

Replies, Part 2

Actually this brings up something i've wondered and hoped maybe can be fixed. In the enchanting window, i make an item, name it, get everything how i want it to work. Then when i try to enchant, success or fail i have to re-write the whole thing to get it happy. Is it possible it could stay in that window with the current settings, say if it fails i just choose another gem, or i can repeat if i wanted multiple of an item? (Early on in the game, i enjoy making clothes with restore health on them)

I can stop the window from closing, but I'm not sure if the game will accept a new enchant properly afterwards. Have to test it.


I know this doesn't quite come under the heading of bugs or errors, but since you managed to add collision for rain and snow, I was wondering;
Would it be possible to add footstep sounds based on terrain texture or mesh type? (grass, mud, snow etc)
Would it be possible to add weapon strike collision - ie, when my sword strikes a wall theres a sound and/or particle effect to go with it?

There aren't any sound-material ids for terrain texture in the data files, nor any source sounds available at the moment. Without any of those I can't build or test it in a reasonable time. Similar reason for the other option. They are good ideas that add immersion, but the most important part would be the sound assets.


Meanwhile here's an issue I'm having with your mercantile fix... Not that I found it bad. It definitely fixes a Morrowind bug. The problem here is that this Morrowind bug was probably deliberately introduced in order to hide another bug: that at mercantile skill 100 and with 100 disposition (both of these conditions are rather easy to meet if one plays for long, but I guess mercantile around 80 would suffice already) I can sell stuff to some traders and buy it back for double price. And iterate this ad infinitum. Your fix made this bug resurface.

Yeah, I knew it was inevitable. How can I justify it? ... At 100 mercantile, you are Bernie Madoff.

Maybe rather than capping the price merchants pay by the price merchants sell the items at, you should try it the other way round (or, better, make this an alternative)? The downside is that things would become more expensive for the player at high mercantile levels, but most players should already bathe in money at high mercantile levels, and usually one doesn't buy too much from merchants in MW.

Wha what? My brain can't handle this too well. Game economies don't make sense.


However, I've got a request as well. Is there any way to trick the engine into treating pools above sea-level as water? I was thinking there might be some way to override the water logic for these pools, so that you can create actual water (or something approximating it). Ideally, this would be done with an activator that would temporarily set the water level to something above zero when you are in that cell.

Obviously, making the main water mesh appear at that level would be inappropriate for most things, so I was thinking that the pool should only behave like water in terms of splashing sounds and swimming. You would have to provide the water layer. However, this would allow for real mountain lakes and such.

Not really possible. Water level checks are sprinkled around the engine; I don't think cell wide water is really an acceptable solution. How is it going to interact with MGE? It's not going to be totally stable, as there is always a place I could miss the existence of a water level check.


No idea why, it an issue that is also a riddle to me...maybe it don't happen on Vanilla Morrowind Rocks cause no region on Vvardenfell use over 100 different rock meshes, cause always a number higher than 100 is involved in a Hash Map Collision.

Significant is that those errors only happen with the MCP and are only noticable in the CS, not in game.

MCP doesn't modify the CS, it's very unlikely to be the real cause. I can't tell if you have precisely isolated the problem. Have you tried uninstalling MCP and testing the CS without it? Are you sure it's not due to multiple installations, registry/path confusion or Vista/Win7 hidden folder issues? The comparison shows two different named esps, it's not obvious that they both have the same data, nor do they constitute proof.
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Cheryl Rice
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:35 pm




MCP doesn't modify the CS, it's very unlikely to be the real cause. I can't tell if you have precisely isolated the problem. Have you tried uninstalling MCP and testing the CS without it? Are you sure it's not due to multiple installations, registry/path confusion or Vista/Win7 hidden folder issues? The comparison shows two different named esps, it's not obvious that they both have the same data, nor do they constitute proof.


I use XP Professional SP 3 and I never had maybe problems with it. The different names are therefore cause the one screen was from the Master File (whole Provience) in my unpatched Modding Folder and the second one the ESM for the Skyrim Modders (cut out) in my gaming folder, but that's the only difference.

I'll install MW and the MCP on my second computer which is a standard office PC later today and run another test there. I wound think a lot about the error markers if only I had them, but the last 2 week I got some reports from other modder who noticed the problem long before I did.
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Roanne Bardsley
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:22 am

@ Hrnchamd

I have to apologise that I made the MCP quilty for that errors...there was also a second thing that was common with all the error reports I've got from the internal testers except the MCP - The BSA.
After deleting the BSA and installing the unpacked Data Files from my Modding Folder everything worked fine...So the Hash Map Collision was caused by the BSA and not by the MCP.

I need to try another program that could pack a BSA instead BSA Browser...the most confusing part to me was that some of the Hash Map Errors came from Meshes and ID's that have been deleted a while ago. I have to unpack the BSA and check the folders to find the reason for that issue.

It worked im my modding folder cause I use no BSA Data cause I prefer the meshes in folders for modding, easier for me to keep the overview.

Again, sorry for that and thanks for your post, without it I wouldn't have made the installment on my second PC and wouldn't have find the error that quick.
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Kay O'Hara
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:21 am

Was there any news if the Potion-making-name-glitch could be fixed?

The problem is: Sometimes when you try to make a potion a message box appears, saying "You need to type in a name for the potion" even if the potion is named uniquely or left with the Default name.
The only thing that seems to fix it is by reloading your Save.

This problem seems to have been around for a long time.
various threads asking about it... http://www.gamesas.com/?showtopic=1066196, http://www.gamesas.com/?showtopic=1061925 http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1093174-alchemy-problems/page__view__findpost__p__15956159, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1092284-alchemy/page__view__findpost__p__15939455, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1075937-cant-brew-potions/page__p__15654256__fromsearch__1&#entry15654256, etc etc
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Killer McCracken
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:02 pm

The problem is: Sometimes when you try to make a potion a message box appears, saying "You need to type in a name for the potion" even if the potion is named uniquely or left with the Default name.
The only thing that seems to fix it is by reloading your Save.

Sometimes that solution doesn't work and you need to even change cell to make it worked again.

When I say change cell I mean one of these two options:

- Go indoors if you're outdoors or vice versa.
- Move to a different location ...let say you're in Vivec, Temple when the potion glitch is *activated* and you try the first solution, but that's not working and the final one is to move to Ebonheart. Only then you actually have temporarily *cured* (if you're lucky) the potion making glitch. That was has happen to me once, but I choose Hla Oad instead of any Vivec cantons and once I've arrived to Hla Oad I saved the game before I tried again. This time it was working.


I agree with Pluto on this. :)
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Chloe Botham
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:54 am

Last time I tried to fix the potion bug, I could never get it to happen. Even after trying 30 mins of potion making. If someone can find a guaranteed way to trigger the bug it would help lots.
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Jay Baby
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:05 am

Hey, good to see you back around here.

Hopefully I won't drive you off again by overloading you with requests :P
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Rachel Hall
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:04 pm

Last time I tried to fix the potion bug, I could never get it to happen. Even after trying 30 mins of potion making. If someone can find a guaranteed way to trigger the bug it would help lots.

it seems to hit me randomly. i dont fiddle with leaving cells or anything..... constantly clicking the "create" button tends to work after a while, or sometimes exiting the alchemy menu and reopening it.
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Gen Daley
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:40 pm

Last time I tried to fix the potion bug, I could never get it to happen. Even after trying 30 mins of potion making. If someone can find a guaranteed way to trigger the bug it would help lots.

The only thing I can think of is that you have just get out from a and you want to make some potions without standing still for a few seconds.

I've sometimes notice this behavior in Oblivion and I suspect that the engine must have a little time to handle the variables in the game.

scripts (global or quest), npc's wandermode, respawn (creatures+daedra+outlaws+undead) and probably a lot more

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Ezekiel Macallister
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:22 pm

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26348

beta 2 features (which people should test and report on) plus:

  • Potion name bugfix

    Stops Morrowind from randomly claiming you should enter a name for a potion, when a name is present. Usually only experienced after extended play.

    I don't know if this actually works! Although I replaced some bad code for sure, it might not be that bug. Test.


  • Spellmaker/enchant edit effect fix

    When editing an existing spell effect, the effect range [Touch/Ranged/Self] would always reset to 'Touch' even though it remembers the other effect settings. This adds some code to remember the effect range properly, making editing spells less irritating.

    Verified correct with the enchant window. Try the spellmaker.

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Stacy Hope
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:57 am

awesome, i've downloaded and will be installing first thing "tomorrow morning"
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Poetic Vice
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:36 pm

Thanks for the update !


I'll have 2 things which I love to see in Morrowind (and maybe others) :
1. A potion limiter feature : with that player can only drink a certain amount of potions (range 1-4) at one time (Oblivion has this feature). There is no easy way to do this with scripting.
2. Player can only make potions with know effects (like in Oblivion too).

I don't know if it is possible and if you have the time but dreaming is always good...
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Emerald Dreams
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:27 am

Hrnchamd: your alchemy fix works perfectly as far as I can tell, thanks!

1. A potion limiter feature : with that player can only drink a certain amount of potions (range 1-4) at one time (Oblivion has this feature). There is no easy way to do this with scripting.
2. Player can only make potions with know effects (like in Oblivion too).


2 would, alas, break the fun in finding the recipes book early in the game.
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Jenna Fields
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:38 pm

Regarding the "loud sounds in battle" fix...

I think the same thing may also apply to items when picking them up out of your inventory. Like, go to sell a bunch if stuff and notice that every third or fourth item has a very loud "pickup" sound.

Can't get it to happen. State exact action taken + exact volume settings please.

I'll have 2 things which I love to see in Morrowind (and maybe others) :
1. A potion limiter feature : with that player can only drink a certain amount of potions (range 1-4) at one time (Oblivion has this feature). There is no easy way to do this with scripting.
2. Player can only make potions with know effects (like in Oblivion too).

Potion limiting seems very difficult, the game just doesn't track potions and they can last a long time, so it has to work via load/save properly. It's a lot of code and lots of possibility for mistakes.
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ONLY ME!!!!
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:38 pm

Can't get it to happen. State exact action taken + exact volume settings please.


I have the master volume maxed out and the "effects" volume two spots down from max (the same spot as the default for music). Go to a merchant and start selling things one by one. About every third or fourth *schloup* sound of an item coming out of your inventory is incredibly loud.

By the by... I replied to you in the thread for my mod.
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JLG
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:57 am

1. A potion limiter feature : with that player can only drink a certain amount of potions (range 1-4) at one time (Oblivion has this feature). There is no easy way to do this with scripting.

I already voted for this feature. It will be really helpful!
Hrnchamd, you're our only hope!

P.S. I'm still not sure about exact amount of simultaneous potions...
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LuCY sCoTT
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:02 am

Just back from my Masochists International meeting...

Good news everyone! I have enchanted item cooldown working. It's pegged to four seconds for now, which seems arbitrarily reasonable.

Still concerned about enchanting. I just tried to make a ring of invisibility, and the charge cost is slightly less than the magicka cost of the same spell. With my indispensible cast cost reducer mod, it works out about the same, yet the charge reservoir in the puny ring is larger than my magicka pool. Injustice! I'm considering making everything 2x or 3x charge use (as long as it doesn't break any pre-existing items). Need to review every magic item, again.

Also noticed enchanting scrolls with an NPC costs the same as if it were a normal reusable item... that needs to change.
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Susan Elizabeth
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:43 am

Good news everyone! I have enchanted item cooldown working. It's pegged to four seconds for now, which seems arbitrarily reasonable.

For what it's worth, I'll like to say thank you so much!

Question: During the cooldown, does it lock the use of any OnCast enchantment or is it separate for every item?
In any case, in combat situation, 4 seconds seems like a long time to wait. Could it be reduced to something like 2 seconds?
It would prevent the machinegun behavior but still allow an aggressive use in combat. I guess that's my 2 cents. :)
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Nomee
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:28 am

Also noticed enchanting scrolls with an NPC costs the same as if it were a normal reusable item... that needs to change.


I'm very excited about this remark. I always wanted to make my own scrolls in-game, but besides finding worthy paper, it is cost-prohibitive.
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Sarah Kim
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:26 am

2.5 seconds seems a bit more reaosnable... mainly because this is my approximation of casting time though normal means.
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helen buchan
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:06 pm

Good news everyone! I have enchanted item cooldown working. It's pegged to four seconds for now, which seems arbitrarily reasonable.


I read that in Professor Farnsworth's voice >.<

Anyways, yeah, four seconds seems reasonable. It's a bit more than spellcasting, but spellcasting has a chance of failure to make up for it.

Also noticed enchanting scrolls with an NPC costs the same as if it were a normal reusable item... that needs to change.


This is also very good news. I think the entire point of enchanting a scroll is to make powerful spells that you a) can't cast on your own and B) can't afford to have made into an enchantment proper.
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Haley Merkley
 
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