Repairing the Cogs of Morrowind #21

Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:29 am

This is a project to fix bugs in Morrowind that just aren't possible to do with scripting alone. It comes in the form of a patch to the Morrowind program.

The primary fix included is a large change to the savegame code to reduce the majority of crashes, corruption, and missing objects. It also makes the game properly respond to changes in your load list, making inserting and removing mods from your savegames a lot safer. There are many more smaller fixes that cover all areas of the game.

All fixes and gameplay changes included are optional, you can independently select which ones you want to use in the installer.

Compatible with English, West European, Polish, Russian and Steam editions. Compatible with MGE, MWSE, MWE, and FPS Opt 1.96. Not compatible with FPS Opt 2.0. Also, improved Russian version compatibility (supports GFM dll).

Version 1.8 is out now.
Files: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19510 http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1008

New features in MCP 1.8:

- PlaceAtPC fix. In third person, should make objects land at the correct distance instead of at the player's feet.
- Spell deselection fix. Fixes player spell deselection when an NPC unequips / uses up a magical item.
- Level-up stats bug fix. Stats that would level to 100 or higher on levelup would get their multiplier reduced to 1 if the stat was on the left column of the level up window.
- Reduce camera clipping. Stops the third person camera from moving closer if an NPC (or activator) is between the player and the camera.
- Spellmaker area effect cost. Fixed tiny error in cost for zero radius spells that affected enchanting.
- Spellmaker/enchant multiple effects. Enchant maker now supports multiple effects, as with the spell maker.
- Bound weapon expiry. When a bound item spell expires it no longer forces you into combat stance.
- Stable enchantment list. Enchantments in the spell menu always sort alphabetically instead of sometimes switching to sorting by inventory order.
- Larger service windows. Makes repair, recharge, and birthsign menus larger.
- Enchanting increases item value. Value increases rebalanced.
- Soulgem value rebalance. Makes filled soulgems worth something more reasonable. Value is dependent only on soul magnitude.
- NPC AI casts zero cost powers. Allows NPCs to cast powers.
- Improved animation support. Allows better animation modding (see readme).
- Arrow enchanting. Now enchants a number of items equal to one-quarter the soul charge of the soul gem.
- Permanent barter disposition mod. Barter disposition changes on successful/failed transaction can now become permanent.
- Splash/main menu texture quality. Previous version didn't work with all texture formats for the main menu. Should work better.
- Intimidate fix. Fixes disposition not increasing by minimum amount on successful intimidate actions (on marginal wins).
- Fog of war fix. Fog of war should no longer stop revealing or update an area a long distance away.
- Delayed spell crash fix. Fixes issue with acquiring vampire buffs with Vampire Realism mod. Caused by a false detection when adding spells and teleporting to crypt in the same frame.


See the previous threads to see how this came about:
Repairing those Cogs http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1098021-repairing-the-cogs-of-morrowind-no-20/ http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1095128-repairing-the-cogs-of-morrowind-no-19/ http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1090176-repairing-the-cogs-of-morrowind-no-18/ http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084044-repairing-the-cogs-of-morrowind-no-17/ http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1041353-repairing-the-cogs-of-morrowind-%2316/ http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1032219 http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1026266 http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1013291 http://www.gamesas.com/?showtopic=1009430 http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=978076 http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=942375 http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=925813 http://www.yacoby.net/es/forum/12/9111491226747880.html http://www.yacoby.net/es/forum/12/8942761225301640.html http://www.yacoby.net/es/forum/12/8891531224348540.html http://www.yacoby.net/es/forum/12/8852991223287560.html http://www.yacoby.net/es/forum/12/8837531222826580.html http://www.yacoby.net/es/forum/12/8812671222030860.html http://www.yacoby.net/es/forum/12/8792971221418740.html http://www.yacoby.net/es/forum/12/8744651220076840.html
thread #9 may not have been archived on the forum.


Now that MCP improves aspects of the graphics and animation handling, you can discuss how to make mods with these new features http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1097585-new-graphical-modding-wth-mcp/.
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Cat Haines
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:39 am

Interesting... of all the NPC-only spells I added to my mod, I never imagined it would be the restore health ones that never got used.

I'm operating under the assumption that one of the primary factors that influence the spellcasting decisions of NPCs is their skill levels. NPCs with high Destruction skills will cast Destruction spells, NPCs with high Alteration skills will cast burden, etc. Is this true?

Also, so long as we're on the subject, is it likely that the MCP will be able to influence this behavior?

AI code is confusing at the best of times, testing is the only way to confirm anything works as intended. NPCs will heal themselves if they have restore health spells (tested) but I don't see the mechanism or priorities yet. Given the low cost of healing in vanilla, e.g. Hearth Heal 20-80 healed for 12.5 magicka, it could multiply effective health many times for some NPCs if not for the long delay between AI casting actions. On the whole, it seems a usable mechanic.

Offensive spells seem to be ranked by (cast chance * cast cost), highest score winning. Not sure about defensive spells; NPCs do manage to cast shield or powers (with the patch) somehow.
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Jack Bryan
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:24 am

It would be great if you could further improve the stability of NPCs and companions on cell changes. For example, it was established long ago that constant enchantments get reapplied to companions. Eventually the enchantment appears to 'overflow', making levitating companions fall.
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NAtIVe GOddess
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:31 pm

yeah! I like your work, it makes the game even better. just one question. with all the new province mods being whipped up. how soon are you going to expand the map area again? i have some stuff half off the NE corner. but alot of new areas are going to be release west and south. hopefully soonish. Or is that much expansion beyond the engines capabilities?(ok that was two questions :blush: ) anyways its still great work. and dedication, thanks. :goodjob:
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Dalton Greynolds
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:31 pm

Also, so long as we're on the subject, is it likely that the MCP will be able to influence this behavior?

Oh yah, it's possible to modify existing functionality like changing what is considered an offensive spell, or thresholds for casting restore health spells, or the spell weighting function. Adding more state aware behaviour is more difficult, and may not be possible if it requires adding hidden AI variables.

It would be great if you could further improve the stability of NPCs and companions on cell changes. For example, it was established long ago that constant enchantments get reapplied to companions. Eventually the enchantment appears to 'overflow', making levitating companions fall.

I've looked into this before, and while the bug may be long established, the explanation given does not hold up to even cursory testing. Constant effect fortify or similar spells like shields (almost fortify AR) only rarely die in action, not on every cell change. I haven't seen an overflow occur with attributes yet. It doesn't seem particularly linked to cell changes, and without a good reproduction case there's no way I can be sure I'm fixing the bug and not causing problems elsewhere.

yeah! I like your work, it makes the game even better. just one question. with all the new province mods being whipped up. how soon are you going to expand the map area again? i have some stuff half off the NE corner. but alot of new areas are going to be release west and south. hopefully soonish. Or is that much expansion beyond the engines capabilities?(ok that was two questions :blush: ) anyways its still great work. and dedication, thanks. :goodjob:

The world map has to be a fixed resolution to be compatible with the other game systems. If I make the area bigger, you lose detail to the point the map starts becoming useless for navigation (in Vvardenfell). It would be nice to have a free scaling map but it's really difficult to engineer into the game as it is, so I draw the line somewhere.
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Sam Parker
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:51 am

I've looked into this before, and while the bug may be long established, the explanation given does not hold up to even cursory testing.

Interesting! I've always found the 'bug' erratic in it's apparent effects I've got to admit. I'd love to be able to work out for you why once in a blue moon Shania drops dead on a cell change! I'll see if I can tie it down but I suspect this will take some finding.
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Alisha Clarke
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:00 pm

I'd love to be able to work out for you why once in a blue moon Shania drops dead on a cell change!

What is Shania's acrobatics skill?
This often happens when the companion levitating, and can be worked around by giving the companion very high acrobatic skill (I usually just do a "companion"->setacrobatics 999).
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Jade Barnes-Mackey
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:47 am

Heard of that one too. Don't think it's that as it can happen when not levitating. It only seems to happen when transiting from exterior to interior or from interior to interior.
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Robert Garcia
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:41 am

Oh yah, it's possible to modify existing functionality like changing what is considered an offensive spell, or thresholds for casting restore health spells, or the spell weighting function. Adding more state aware behaviour is more difficult, and may not be possible if it requires adding hidden AI variables.


Well, I think the AI is already apparently more than aware enough about its offensive capabilities. It recognizes all of the effects that it can actually use to decent effect against you and then some. My mod has stripped away all of the autocalculation and left behind only the ones that will actually work. Because somehow, I don't see them being smart enough to know to cast weakness to fire and THEN a fire spell against you. So, if we go with the NPC-only spells I've left in my mod (as of the upcoming version 4.0), we end up with the following list of offensive spells:

Burden
Bound Equipment (ish)
Summon Creature (ish)
Damage Fatigue
Damage Health
Damage Magicka
Damage Attribute (I'm debating whether or not to keep these two)
Disintegrate Weapon/Armor (ditto)
Fire Damage
Frost Damage
Shock Damage
Poison
Blind
Paralyze
Silence
Absorb Health
Absorb Magicka
Absorb Fatigue

And we've established that these will all get used, and relatively intelligently. Honestly, it's their defensive capabilities I'm more concerned about. We all know that they will cast summons or bound equipment, and you've said that they will use Shield, as well. I'm assuming Frost/Fire/Lightning Shield fall under the same category?

Fortify health/fatigue/attribute seem like good candidates for them to be able to use, as does Sanctuary, Reflect, and Spell Absorption. I get the feeling that the AI would be way too [censored] to use anything else, like Dispel, for example, too effectively, though.

On an entirely separate note, is it at all possible for the MCP to put different caps on the max level of skill based on whether they're major, minor, or misc.? Or is that the sort of thing you'd have to do through scripting?
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Julie Serebrekoff
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:11 pm

Fortify health/fatigue/attribute seem like good candidates for them to be able to use, as does Sanctuary, Reflect, and Spell Absorption. I get the feeling that the AI would be way too [censored] to use anything else, like Dispel, for example, too effectively, though.

Fortify stats should be an ability for the most part. It's considered bad design for NPCs to spend several seconds buffing themselves while you're busy inserting a claymore into their eye socket. It's also forgettable in that you can see them cast something that has no external effect, nor a detectable one as there is no way to tell they are harder to kill versus an ability. You only 'know' to cast dispel to remove the buff is if you knew about it already, and well the AI may be dumb enough to recast them over and over without extra state tracking.

As part of the NPC cast powers patch, they seem to like using sanctuary already, so I think that's covered. I'll search out the defensive spell setup sometime this week.

On an entirely separate note, is it at all possible for the MCP to put different caps on the max level of skill based on whether they're major, minor, or misc.? Or is that the sort of thing you'd have to do through scripting?

It's possible to cap level ups on minor and misc stats, but there's several mechanisms for messing with stats like script based stat increases, training, magicka levelling mods, blocking/combat mods which all mean it requires several hours of testing and might not actually work out. Scripting is more modular and update-able.
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Racheal Robertson
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:44 am

Fortify stats should be an ability for the most part. It's considered bad design for NPCs to spend several seconds buffing themselves while you're busy inserting a claymore into their eye socket. It's also forgettable in that you can see them cast something that has no external effect, nor a detectable one as there is no way to tell they are harder to kill versus an ability. You only 'know' to cast dispel to remove the buff is if you knew about it already, and well the AI may be dumb enough to recast them over and over without extra state tracking.


Hmm... I see what you mean. I take it this would probably apply to fortify health/fatigue, as well?

As part of the NPC cast powers patch, they seem to like using sanctuary already, so I think that's covered. I'll search out the defensive spell setup sometime this week.


M'kay.

It's possible to cap level ups on minor and misc stats, but there's several mechanisms for messing with stats like script based stat increases, training, magicka levelling mods, blocking/combat mods which all mean it requires several hours of testing and might not actually work out. Scripting is more modular and update-able.


I guess the question becomes "is it doable?"

I think Fliggerty had mentioned that it might be, but it's certainly beyond the realm of my expertise. I'm more of a game balance kinda guy >.>
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Danielle Brown
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:11 am

As far as scripting goes, there's GCD of course. It doesn't cap per se, but it does a pretty good job of weighting skills and atts according to major/minor/misc.
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Nicole Coucopoulos
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:40 pm

I have another question, actually.

The formula for the progression rate of the Enchant skill with regards to cost per charge as the skill increases... I'm assuming that's hard-coded?

I ask because, well...

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1115117-im-sooo-close-to-finally-balancing-the-enchanting-system/

[edit:]

Okay, yeah, you beat me to it.

This is really good news, though, because it means that I don't have to worry about trying to fix it on my own anymore.

I still intend to increase the cost per charge GMST significantly because I think that, just like with spells, your Enchant skill level should limit you from using enchantments beyond your means. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I need to get a bead on exactly what you plan on doing with the formula so that I can adjust my settings accordingly.

Speaking of my enchant settings, I think I've even found a way to balance out the ability to enchant projectiles :)
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Queen
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:19 pm

Hi guys,

I came across this thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1112581-base-attack-damage page__p__16349873__fromsearch__1&#entry16349873 and wondered if this could be something that the MCP could look into?

To crack the thread in a nut shell, its about creature base damage not being added to weapon base damage, if the creature uses a weapon.

Now, I know that your thinking why would a creature's attack be added to weapon attack - well two reasons: 1) Bethesda designed creatures that way but it doesnt work and 2) I think that at least a small portion of the attack should be transered over. A dremora for example doesnt really have "natural weapons" like a for example a guar, but it still has base attacks.

While this ensures that if the creature doesnt have a weapon, it still has an attack - I dont think there are any dremora or golden saints that dont carry a weapon.

I dunno, it would be an asthetic thing, and it certinaly would make the game a bit harder - which isnt always a bad thing. perhaps you could make it an optional "patch like some of the other patches you have done??
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Kill Bill
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:58 am

I'm all for harder. Especially daedra. So by default there is no difference between a dremora with a dwemer shortsword and one with a daedric claymore?
Or is it if a dremora has no weapon it does no damage?
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Blaine
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:44 pm

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I've always disliked the fact that dialog menus can only be closed pressing the "Goodbye" button ...or by clicking on a specific answer that toggles a script (like when you pissed off an NPC enough so that he's going to attack you). It would be great if you could also close them with a button (use or inventory comes to mind).

From time to time, I like to play Morrowind on my TV using a gamepad. That's great for playing the game with a friend, because you don't have to swap places just to let your friend play. Moving the cursor to that one single button every time is really a pain in the ass.

Also, many times I only want to know what services an NPC might have to offer. It would be great if this could be done as fast as checking the items in a container.

Would it be possible to add that feature? Or is it already there and I just managed to overlook it in all these years?
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stevie trent
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:48 am


Would it be possible to add that feature? Or is it already there and I just managed to overlook it in all these years?


Actually, if you use MGE or MWSE, Fliggerty made a mod that does just that. :) I think its called the "Dialogue closer of doom" ? By defaults its mapped to the middle button on the mouse, but I think you can change it to another key as well. Works well for dialogues, but not so well for books.
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Nomee
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:17 am

Working on my mod again tonight... I'm going to make the new Enchant settings under the asusmption that the code patch will assume a baseline Enchant skill of 10 and progress upwards in a linear fashion from there. Let me know if your plans differ from this Hrch... or however the hell you spell/pronounce that.
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Scarlet Devil
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:40 am

Actually, if you use MGE or MWSE, Fliggerty made a mod that does just that. :) I think its called the "Dialogue closer of doom" ? By defaults its mapped to the middle button on the mouse, but I think you can change it to another key as well. Works well for dialogues, but not so well for books.


Great, thank you :) Too bad I'm using MGE XE. Does the external version of MWSE work with that?
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Oyuki Manson Lavey
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:06 pm

MGE has MWSE built in. If you want to use the external version, you can disable MGE's internal version. For more information, check out the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1113265-morrowind-graphics-extender-mge/.
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Andrew Tarango
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:44 pm

MGE has MWSE built in. If you want to use the external version, you can disable MGE's internal version. For more information, check out the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1113265-morrowind-graphics-extender-mge/.


MGE-XE does not have MWSE built into it.
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aisha jamil
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:23 pm

Something else you might want to peruse if you have a few spare moments, Hrch:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1115268-regarding-flagging-a-cell-as-illegal-to-sleep-here/page__view__findpost__p__16374391
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Josh Dagreat
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:11 pm

Great, thank you :) Too bad I'm using MGE XE. Does the external version of MWSE work with that?


Yes, it will work with the external version of MWSE. :)

http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=1087
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My blood
 
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Post » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:17 pm

I happen to dislike the lowered number of arrows enchanted per soulgem charge now... is there a way for me to have the older ammount of soulgem charges per arrow 400 charges to 400 arrows and have all the other options?

I do happen to like the other changes though I just don't like the ammount of money I have to spend buying grand soul gems to get only 100 enchanted arrows when I spent time hunted ascended sleapers...
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Far'ed K.G.h.m
 
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Post » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:50 am

Oh, something else...

In the same light as the edit to the Enchant skill, I was wondering if the same thing could be done to the Unarmored skill?

Sorry to dump so many things on you lately. Just to summarize, these are all the issues I've brought up over the last few days:

~The behavior of NPCs regarding spellcasting choices (you were going to look into how they selected defensive spells)
~The linear progression of the Enchant skill (this is the one I'm most concerned about)
~The linear progression of the Unarmored skill
~The fact that Morrowind may not dump all of the data it should when loading a new game (see link above)

I'm most concerned about the enchant one because I'm having a hard time figuring out a way to increase the charge cost per use OR a way to lower the amount of charges given by souls globally without causing a compatibility nightmare. Even if you cause the enchant skill to grow linearly instead of exponentially, you're still going to end up with an imbalanced skill, because even an enchant skill of 10 is going to allow you cast spells way beyond your means and spam the hell out of your attacks as long as you can find yourself even a decent-sized soul. The way I'm looking at it, the numbers for an Enchant skill of 10 are more than what you should be getting with an enchant skill of 100, whereas an enchant skill of 10 should be much, much higher.

Problem with that is that it's only balanced up until about about an enchant level of 70 or so, at which point it takes off like a rocket. So, I guess what I'm suggesting isn't just making the formula linear, but raising the values significantly. Which I know you sort of don't like doing because you only intend to fix things and not balance them. But there's really no other way for me to do this on my own, and it svcks.

Maybe offer two versions of the fix? One just makes it linear, and one makes it linear and multiplies the charge costs by 10 across the board? I can go on a much lengthier diatribe than this with regards to how the latter is much more balancing.
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QuinDINGDONGcey
 
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