Repairing the Cogs of Morrowind #23

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 8:45 am

No, it never does check as far as I know. Out on the streets it's difficult to get sneak status, I'm not sure if it's immersive to follow people around until the sneak indicator finally works. If you had MCA for example, you'd never be able to pick anyone's pocket in public.
User avatar
Dominic Vaughan
 
Posts: 3531
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 1:47 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 9:00 am

Thinking a bit on potion weight, I started from a lightly modified version of your formula:

potion weight = [ (ingredients weight)^(1/2) + x ] / ( y + z * alembic quality)

and tried to calculate the values of x, y and z to met certain conditions that we can set as we like more. Note that I'm doing the square root of ingredients weight to reduce the huge difference between the maximum ingredient weight (40) and the minimum one (0.2). Using the square root heavy ingredients will be much more usable, while still giving heavy potions. Very light ingredients, on the contrary, will produce potions weighting more than them, but this is right since the bottle has a weight too, so excessively light potions are unrealistic.

I considered the following datas:
- minimum ingredients weight: 0.2 (2 x 0.1)
- maximum ingredients weight: 40 (4 x 10)
- minimum alembic quality: 0 (no alembic)
- maximum alembic quality: 1.5 (grandmaster)

Now, we have 3 variables, so we can choose 3 conditions to met. I chose the following conditions.

1) Minimum potion weight: 0.25
It's the weight of quality potions, the lightest ones sold by vendors. This should be obtained with minimum ingredients weight (0.2) and maximum alembic quality (1.5).

2) Maximum potion weight: 4
This is heavier than potions sold by vendors (the bargain ones weight only 1.5), but we should keep in mind that it comes out of 4 very heavy ingredients and with no alembic, so this isn't something you'll really see in an alchemist's shop.

3) alembic influence: 40%
This means that a potion weighting 1 without alembics, will weight 0.6 with the best alembic (1.5).

Well, considering those 3 conditions we have the following values, rounded to the second decimal:
x = 0.24
y = 1.64
z = 0.73

And so our formula becomes:

potion weight = [ (ingredients weight)^(1/2) + 0.24 ] / ( 1.64 + 0.73 * alembic quality)

Keep in mind that all the numbers I used in this post, the weights and the 3 conditions can be freely changed if you find them unbalanced or unrealistic. I've built an excel spreadsheet that can give x, y and z for any combination of weights and conditions we want to try. That is, hoping I didn't screw up something. :P

Here's a table with potion weights using the values I gave above for x, y and z:

	       alembic qualityingr	0	0,5	1	1,2	1,5	20,2	0,42	0,34	0,29	0,27	0,25	0,220,4	0,53	0,43	0,37	0,35	0,32	0,280,6	0,62	0,50	0,43	0,40	0,37	0,330,8	0,69	0,56	0,48	0,45	0,41	0,361	0,75	0,62	0,52	0,49	0,45	0,401,2	0,81	0,66	0,56	0,53	0,49	0,431,4	0,87	0,71	0,60	0,56	0,52	0,461,6	0,92	0,75	0,63	0,60	0,55	0,481,8	0,96	0,79	0,67	0,63	0,58	0,512	1,01	0,82	0,70	0,66	0,60	0,533	1,20	0,98	0,83	0,78	0,72	0,644	1,36	1,12	0,94	0,89	0,82	0,726	1,64	1,34	1,13	1,07	0,98	0,878	1,87	1,53	1,29	1,22	1,12	0,9910	2,07	1,70	1,43	1,35	1,24	1,1012	2,26	1,85	1,56	1,47	1,35	1,1915	2,51	2,05	1,73	1,63	1,50	1,3320	2,87	2,35	1,99	1,87	1,72	1,5230	3,48	2,85	2,41	2,27	2,09	1,8440	4,00	3,27	2,77	2,61	2,40	2,12


Hope this can be of help.
User avatar
yermom
 
Posts: 3323
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:56 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 5:48 pm

Is anyone else having an issue with NPC companions having REALLY strange casting behavior with the swiftcasting patch applied? All four of my companions do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytn9jPq_CKc

with the patch; removing it returns them to normal casting behavior.
User avatar
Charlotte Lloyd-Jones
 
Posts: 3345
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:53 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 1:48 pm

Morrowind has the best idle animations. That must be what the animators spent 90% of their time doing after they made the walking animation and forgot about it.

Time to start making a graph of the AI animation state transitions, sigh.
User avatar
Bad News Rogers
 
Posts: 3356
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:37 am

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 5:20 pm

By the way, has this bug been fixed:

Slowfall:
There is a bug associated with this effect which makes it a very bad idea to use it on NPCs or creatures, particularly when an NPC or creature is following you and you go through a door into a new cell. For some reason, the Slowfall effect will work in reverse, and increase the amount of damage they will take. This bug can often be fatal, so it's never a good idea to use this spell on anyone but yourself.


Kalamestari_69
User avatar
Anthony Diaz
 
Posts: 3474
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:24 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 7:02 am

Is anyone else having an issue with NPC companions having REALLY strange casting behavior with the swiftcasting patch applied? All four of my companions do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytn9jPq_CKc

with the patch; removing it returns them to normal casting behavior.


Also, this command will produce such behavior with MCPbeta6 as stated by some users - "cast "xxxxx" player".
User avatar
Donald Richards
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:59 am

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 7:52 pm

Is anyone else having an issue with NPC companions having REALLY strange casting behavior with the swiftcasting patch applied? All four of my companions do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytn9jPq_CKc

with the patch; removing it returns them to normal casting behavior.

Yeah I just started noticing that too, with Julan and Jasmine. Combat casting is fine, but when they're forced to cast on themselves like this, through a companion script, they start waving their one arm and won't move anymore.. It also happens to the mages from Starfire's NPC Additions who 'teleport' into the area.
User avatar
Amy Smith
 
Posts: 3339
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:04 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 5:50 pm

This question has probably been asked many times already so I’ll make it quick - is there any chance to increase (via MCP) number of equipment slots hardcoded in the engine? This would actually be very helpful for clothing mods and other projects like HELLUVA Sheaths etc.
User avatar
Francesca
 
Posts: 3485
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:26 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 9:14 pm

Not really. The mesh replacements don't apply to slots exactly, there are 'biped parts' which replace/hide the body parts underneath. There is also the problem of modding the CS to make it possible to use those slots for anything. Finally, there are data dependencies, which means I have to patch every place in the game which switches functions based the slot id. It's a lot of redesign.
User avatar
Robert Jackson
 
Posts: 3385
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:39 am

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 8:43 am

Is anyone else having an issue with NPC companions having REALLY strange casting behavior with the swiftcasting patch applied? All four of my companions do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytn9jPq_CKc

with the patch; removing it returns them to normal casting behavior.


Funny You noticed it, today I was playing MQ and Divayth Fyr has started to show me this fancy moves, and therefore strangely tried to attack me, but all that he's do is walking around me and swinging his arm like in this video. Kinda funny tho :D
User avatar
My blood
 
Posts: 3455
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:09 am

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 5:16 pm

Now, we have 3 variables, so we can choose 3 conditions to met. I chose the following conditions.

1) Minimum potion weight: 0.25
It's the weight of quality potions, the lightest ones sold by vendors. This should be obtained with minimum ingredients weight (0.2) and maximum alembic quality (1.5).

2) Maximum potion weight: 4
This is heavier than potions sold by vendors (the bargain ones weight only 1.5), but we should keep in mind that it comes out of 4 very heavy ingredients and with no alembic, so this isn't something you'll really see in an alchemist's shop.

3) alembic influence: 40%
This means that a potion weighting 1 without alembics, will weight 0.6 with the best alembic (1.5).
...
Hope this can be of help.

It's an accurate regression, but your conditions are a little crazy. :) Balancing around potions of 4x ebony when it's a huge outlier is going to make for silly results. If you could see all the potions every player ever made, about 99.9% would be two items of weight 1.0 or less. Third condition is also pretty bad from a gameplay point of view. At level one your dagger will do 5 damage, at an advanced level your battle axe does 70 or something, a large progression. Going from nothing to a very expensive item only lets you carry 50% more potions, and a one step upgrade is not even noticeable - it can be disappointing.
User avatar
Carlitos Avila
 
Posts: 3438
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:05 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 8:51 am

Hrnchamd,

Is it hard to fix "Talked to PC" function? It resets with the rest of cached data after 72 hours (fCorpseClearDelay GMST), and makes a great mess in dialogues. Is there a way to exclude "Talked to PC" from resetted functions list? Will it affect performance so greatly? It will be very useful additions to MCP, because the only existing CS workaround requires to manually make additional journal entries for all greeting dialogues for EVERY npc.
User avatar
Taylrea Teodor
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:20 am

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 8:27 pm

No, it never does check as far as I know. Out on the streets it's difficult to get sneak status, I'm not sure if it's immersive to follow people around until the sneak indicator finally works. If you had MCA for example, you'd never be able to pick anyone's pocket in public.


Frankly, most pickpocketing doesn't require you to be unseen, just unnoticed. In fact, I would say that most pickpockets occur from people the victim are fully aware are present, the person was simply not suspicious enough to pay attention to, or is good at making one thing look like another. Which, I think is a more realistic form of 'sneak.'

The thing that always bothered me about sneak, is that it's a mode in which you become as suspicious as you possibly can. It's really more of a 'hide' than 'sneak.'
User avatar
Gracie Dugdale
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:02 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 2:03 pm

Is it hard to fix "Talked to PC" function? It resets with the rest of cached data after 72 hours (fCorpseClearDelay GMST), and makes a great mess in dialogues. Is there a way to exclude "Talked to PC" from resetted functions list? Will it affect performance so greatly? It will be very useful additions to MCP, because the only existing CS workaround requires to manually make additional journal entries for all greeting dialogues for EVERY npc.

This kind of thing leads to everyone in Vvardenfell recognizing you after one visit, it's not the right way to fix any problems. We can't have everyone acting familiar now.
User avatar
Camden Unglesbee
 
Posts: 3467
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:30 am

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 9:58 am

after ignoring swiftcasting long enough, i gave it a try yesterday and its very cool.
i wonder wether its possible to blind out the weapon while casting animation? i noticed that two handed weapons (only tested spear) look pretty stupid while cast animation - they go through players head and overall it looks crazy how the waepon is swinging around while casting.
User avatar
Crystal Clear
 
Posts: 3552
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:42 am

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 8:10 pm

It's an accurate regression, but your conditions are a little crazy. :) Balancing around potions of 4x ebony when it's a huge outlier is going to make for silly results. If you could see all the potions every player ever made, about 99.9% would be two items of weight 1.0 or less. Third condition is also pretty bad from a gameplay point of view. At level one your dagger will do 5 damage, at an advanced level your battle axe does 70 or something, a large progression. Going from nothing to a very expensive item only lets you carry 50% more potions, and a one step upgrade is not even noticeable - it can be disappointing.

As I said, we have some room for adjusting the target.
Let's consider these datas:
- minimum ingredients weight: 0.2 (0.1 + 0.1)
- maximum ingredients weight: 12 (10 + 2) <-- it's not so common but an ingredient with weight 10 can be used
- minimum alembic quality: 0 (no alembic)
- maximum alembic quality: 1.5 (grandmaster)

1) Minimum potion weight: 0.2
Down from 0.25.

2) Maximum potion weight: 2.4
This is for ingredients weighting 12 and no alembic.

3) alembic influence: 80%
Up from 40%.

With these conditions we have:
x = 1.71
y = 2.15
z = 5.75

potion weight = [ (ingredients weight)^(1/2) + 1.71 ] / ( 2.15 + 5.75 * alembic quality)

The table of weights becomes:

ingr	0	0,5	1	1,2	1,5	20,2	1,00	0,43	0,27	0,24	0,20	0,160,4	1,09	0,47	0,30	0,26	0,22	0,170,6	1,15	0,49	0,31	0,27	0,23	0,180,8	1,21	0,52	0,33	0,29	0,24	0,191	1,26	0,54	0,34	0,30	0,25	0,201,2	1,30	0,56	0,35	0,31	0,26	0,211,4	1,34	0,57	0,37	0,32	0,27	0,211,6	1,38	0,59	0,38	0,33	0,28	0,221,8	1,42	0,61	0,39	0,34	0,28	0,222	1,45	0,62	0,40	0,34	0,29	0,233	1,60	0,68	0,44	0,38	0,32	0,254	1,72	0,74	0,47	0,41	0,34	0,276	1,93	0,83	0,53	0,46	0,39	0,308	2,11	0,90	0,57	0,50	0,42	0,3310	2,26	0,97	0,62	0,54	0,45	0,3612	2,40	1,03	0,65	0,57	0,48	0,3815	2,59	1,11	0,71	0,62	0,52	0,4120	2,87	1,23	0,78	0,68	0,57	0,4530	3,33	1,43	0,91	0,79	0,67	0,5340	3,73	1,60	1,02	0,89	0,75	0,59


As you can see, quality potions (weight 0.25) are obtained by ingredients weighting 1 with the better alembic. Bargain potions (weight 1.5) are obtained with ingredients weighting 2-3 and no alembic.

A last word on alembics (and apparatuses in general) quality. The vanilla progression (0 - 0.5 - 1 - 1.2 - 1.5 - 2) doesn't make much sense to me. Wanting to retain the extreme values, a progression like 0 - 0.2 - 0.6 - 1 - 1.5 - 2 seems much more balanced. But this is best solved via modding. :)
User avatar
naomi
 
Posts: 3400
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:58 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 2:58 pm

Hrnchamd,

Is it hard to fix "Talked to PC" function? It resets with the rest of cached data after 72 hours (fCorpseClearDelay GMST), and makes a great mess in dialogues. Is there a way to exclude "Talked to PC" from resetted functions list? Will it affect performance so greatly? It will be very useful additions to MCP, because the only existing CS workaround requires to manually make additional journal entries for all greeting dialogues for EVERY npc.

This is working as intended by Bethesda. The strange behaviour (short term memory loss) is a result of the 72-hour effect that resets the flag. If Hrnchamd can tweak the code to make this function unaffected by the effect the problem would be resolved. Considering all of the data that the game preserves beyond 72 hours I cannot think this would be a performance issue. If Talked to PC cannot be made unsucceptible to the 72-hour effect I see no need to attempt anything more. This issue can be (and is) addressed by mods.
User avatar
Cash n Class
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:01 am

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 6:21 am

It's still 0,11 difference between the lightest potion and a potion with 1 common heavy ingredient + 3 light ingredients with the average journeyman alembic. You can still distill ebony to a 1,02 potion. It's just not where I think it should be going.

This is working as intended by Bethesda. The strange behaviour (short term memory loss) is a result of the 72-hour effect that resets the flag. If Hrnchamd can tweak the code to make this function unaffected by the effect the problem would be resolved. Considering all of the data that the game preserves beyond 72 hours I cannot think this would be a performance issue. If Talked to PC cannot be made unsucceptible to the 72-hour effect I see no need to attempt anything more. This issue can be (and is) addressed by mods.

I'm concerned it will have a worse effect on vanilla dialogue. Everyone will know your name eventually, things like that. In the save file, the flag appears to be stored next to disposition which is permanent, so I may be able to fix it. It needs special conditions really, like don't clear if companion == 1 or something.

There should really be a better way of tracking familiarity than one flag. If people remembered you better and welcome you if you deal with them or talk to them several times, or have a different insult if they recognize you but disposition is low.
User avatar
Rachyroo
 
Posts: 3415
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:23 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 2:38 pm

I'm concerned it will have a worse effect on vanilla dialogue. Everyone will know your name eventually, things like that. In the save file, the flag appears to be stored next to disposition which is permanent, so I may be able to fix it. It needs special conditions really, like don't clear if companion == 1 or something.

There should really be a better way of tracking familiarity than one flag. If people remembered you better and welcome you if you deal with them or talk to them several times, or have a different insult if they recognize you but disposition is low.


I agree, the one flag is too simplistic. Let's say I have a Redoran type player that visits Vos once in a blue (should that be red?) moon. Why would some smith there remember me because I once asked them to repair my sword over a month ago? Generally I would want an NPC to 'forget' my character unless I interact with them regularly, I think this is best dealt with by mods rather then MCP.
User avatar
Amy Cooper
 
Posts: 3400
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:38 am

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 6:28 pm

Checked out the code and it does dispose of most the actor data, and I found where the talked to PC flag is stored. It's almost impossible to move data between structures, though. There may be something recoverable; if I prevented the game from cleaning actors that meet a certain condition, that could certainly save companions. What other conditions might be reasonable?
User avatar
abi
 
Posts: 3405
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:17 am

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 4:48 am

This question has probably been asked many times already so I’ll make it quick - is there any chance to increase (via MCP) number of equipment slots hardcoded in the engine? This would actually be very helpful for clothing mods and other projects like HELLUVA Sheaths etc.


Hey Logitech. Sandman101 and I are working on a different approach to this problem. I have prototype scripts that allow a player to double up any stock gloves, bracers, gauntlets or pauldrons that have matching meshes in their inventory with a dual item. The dual item uses the right-hand equipment slot. Sandman has done the ground meshes and inventory icons. I have a global script running that, when a player equips a dual item it will force unequip the left-hand item and equipping a left hand item unequips the dual item - so they really do feel like dual items in the inventory.

Then, we have sheaths that use a left-hand glove or bracer slot. Quivers and slung shields that use the left hand pauldron slot. These items will only be added and equipped if the left hand equipment slots are clear, so we actually respect the player's existing equipment. To give you an idea of the level of integration we're aiming for Sandman has sent me a sheath for every weapon in the game, everything that can sheath on the back has 20 variations with each stock clavicle piece attached! If the player changes their right pauldron I swap the sheath accordingly.

We're a long way from release yet, but I'm really hoping to be ready for playtesting before the end of the month. At the moment I'm trying to get the scripts to respect third party equipment, eventually I intend to do script templates that can be used to integrate mod-added weapons.
User avatar
lexy
 
Posts: 3439
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:37 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 6:59 pm

Is it possible to fix the mouse pointer slowness that Morrowind suffers from? Having to use FPS Optimizer to hack the mouse pointer in inventory mode is a pain.
User avatar
Dean Ashcroft
 
Posts: 3566
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:20 am

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 2:38 pm

Checked out the code and it does dispose of most the actor data, and I found where the talked to PC flag is stored. It's almost impossible to move data between structures, though. There may be something recoverable; if I prevented the game from cleaning actors that meet a certain condition, that could certainly save companions. What other conditions might be reasonable?


IMO, off the top of my head, any of these conditions seem to make the player more memorable:
  • As you say, Companion == 1
  • Same faction
  • Very high disposition - say 80+, or very low - below 20.
  • If this can be realistically evaluated - dialogue filtered for specific NPC has created a quest journal entry. IE. The player has accepted a quest from this NPC.
  • Player has committed crime against NPC (and been caught).
  • NPC is slave freed by player.

Just some quick suggestions, what do other folk think?
Edit - added a couple more items.
User avatar
Joe Bonney
 
Posts: 3466
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:00 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 8:25 pm

# Same faction

You don't have to know every little recruit in your faction. Only the names of the top levels (~4) should be recognizable.
I agree with other options.

It would also be logical to add a check for Nerevarine (you surely won't forget one) and for big reputation.
User avatar
Clea Jamerson
 
Posts: 3376
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:23 pm

Post » Fri May 13, 2011 6:37 am

I agree, the one flag is too simplistic. Let's say I have a Redoran type player that visits Vos once in a blue (should that be red?) moon. Why would some smith there remember me because I once asked them to repair my sword over a month ago? Generally I would want an NPC to 'forget' my character unless I interact with them regularly, I think this is best dealt with by mods rather then MCP.


My 2 cents are that keeping conversation data past 72 hours does NOT need to be done thru MCP. I give an example of a way to do this with MWSE scripting in another post here:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1157470-script-for-tracking-past-72-hours/

ST
User avatar
trisha punch
 
Posts: 3410
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:38 am

PreviousNext

Return to III - Morrowind