[Britta Gronkowski]

Is it just me?
I'm all for helping others where possible, but it appears to be coming a more and more frequent occurrence for users to start new threads with a question while the current Official thread is active.
This means fragmented information all over the forum, resulting in the same question cropping up dozens of times, sometimes within the space of a few days.
To give an example of this there are eleven threads spread over the first five pages currently for FCOM related issues. That doesn't include the normal crop of load order issue posts.
If these queries are addressed in the parent thread and the question satisfactorily answered, then that information is readily available and accessible to all just by reading or backtracking through one thread.
Apart from receiving often conflicting information from well intentioned members in these threads, the likelihood of a quick and accurate answer from the modder and users familiar with the inner workings of a specif mod in the home thread are perhaps tenfold.
I'm sure there are others who will read this and silently agree that it does get tedious repeating yourself five and six times a week.
Yes, the option is there not to reply to the poster, but that doesn't eradicate the issue.
Perhaps I'm just ranting, but I've been accused of being over zealous and harsh three times in the last few days for trying to direct users to a parent thread.

edit - and to RTFRM :swear: :banghead:

[Brooke Turner]

Perhaps I'm just ranting, but I've been accused of being over zealous and harsh three times in the last few days for trying to direct users to a parent thread.

All I can say is keep doing it. Keeping the threads tidy is good for everyone, or at least, everyone who bothers to read posts other then those in direct reply to their own.

[Samantha Wood]

I wholeheartedly agree with you Shikishima!

I know of whom you speak.

I've never though you were over zealous, or harsh.

[Liv Staff]

Man, I just know this is going to sound harsher than intended...
I have been seeing more and more threads asking for help lately. Like you, I am very welcome to give advise, and some questions out there are issues that would be hard for a new mod user to identify. I "grew up" (lack of a better word I was actually in highschool) with morrowind, and I remember the days where I was reduced to endless minutes of disabling this mod, then that mod, to see what the conflict was. This, I believe, is a great contributed of my successfulness with morrowind in the past, and oblivion today. I see many users who make no attempt to, if not do the method I did, even google their problem before asking. I can answer many questions with a simple google or forum search. Many, as you said, don't like to read other threads, even if they're about the exact same problem. I don't know how many times I've explained the missing masters problem/solution.
I guess what I'm getting at is that... Some of the new oblivion users, the latest "generation" persay, seems to be a bit... Hesitant, reluctant to attempt to solve their problems themselves. I'm not saying it's just the new oblivion players either, I just... Idk...
Now please don't yell at me. Let's keep this to a calm discussion.
And remember, that almost definately sounds more harsh than I intend it. I only voice up because, honestly, I'm starting to worry.

[Chloe Lou]

Man, I just know this is going to sound harsher than intended...
I have been seeing more and more threads asking for help lately. Like you, I am very welcome to give advise, and some questions out there are issues that would be hard for a new mod user to identify. I "grew up" (lack of a better word I was actually in highschool) with morrowind, and I remember the days where I was reduced to endless minutes of disabling this mod, then that mod, to see what the conflict was. This, I believe, is a great contributed of my successfulness with morrowind in the past, and oblivion today. I see many users who make no attempt to, if not do the method I did, even google their problem before asking. I can answer many questions with a simple google or forum search. Many, as you said, don't like to read other threads, even if they're about the exact same problem. I don't know how many times I've explained the missing masters problem/solution.
I guess what I'm getting at is that... Some of the new oblivion users, the latest "generation" persay, seems to be a bit... Hesitant, reluctant to attempt to solve their problems themselves. I'm not saying it's just the new oblivion players either, I just... Idk...
Now please don't yell at me. Let's keep this to a calm discussion.
And remember, that almost definately sounds more harsh than I intend it. I only voice up because, honestly, I'm starting to worry.

Well that is self explanatory. Those who come here and ask about a lot of different things are mostly people who know next to nothing about modding or load orders etc. It's hard for them to solve their problems when they don't know what is happening. And they can't find missing masters when they don't know what it is. As simple as that I believe
I do agree that these folk should post in the parent threads

[chirsty aggas]

Well that is self explanatory. Those who come here and ask about a lot of different things are mostly people who know next to nothing about modding or load orders etc. It's hard for them to solve their problems when they don't know what is happening. And they can't find missing masters when they don't know what it is. As simple as that I believe
I do agree that these folk should post in the parent threads

Oh, no no no... I seemed to have forgotten my groups again. I guess, Now that I think about it, that I mean the second generation. I see some people just throwing on there load orders, without trying to expirement with them theirselves. They know what load order is and stuff, they just... Ahhh forget it.
The missing masters thing is just annoying. I wish they would post something about that in the compatability stikied thread. That one comes up alot.

[Bambi]

Man, I just know this is going to sound harsher than intended...
I have been seeing more and more threads asking for help lately. Like you, I am very welcome to give advise, and some questions out there are issues that would be hard for a new mod user to identify. I "grew up" (lack of a better word I was actually in highschool) with morrowind, and I remember the days where I was reduced to endless minutes of disabling this mod, then that mod, to see what the conflict was. This, I believe, is a great contributed of my successfulness with morrowind in the past, and oblivion today. I see many users who make no attempt to, if not do the method I did, even google their problem before asking. I can answer many questions with a simple google or forum search. Many, as you said, don't like to read other threads, even if they're about the exact same problem. I don't know how many times I've explained the missing masters problem/solution.
I guess what I'm getting at is that... Some of the new oblivion users, the latest "generation" persay, seems to be a bit... Hesitant, reluctant to attempt to solve their problems themselves. I'm not saying it's just the new oblivion players either, I just... Idk...
Now please don't yell at me. Let's keep this to a calm discussion.
And remember, that almost definately sounds more harsh than I intend it. I only voice up because, honestly, I'm starting to worry.

Yeah, but isn't asking someone "finding out for yourself"? I know that I only post questions after hours of trying to find out by reading what I find. If I haven't found what to read, then there is no "finding out for myself", which suggests I invent an answer to my question. My only way of finding out for myself then is to ask people that know. For example, I've poured over the FCOM FAQ, but never found out if Ren's Races would be compatible with FCOM. So I had to ask. Incidentally, is there an FCOm only thread that everyone is supposed to be using here? If so , link me and I'll bookmark it.

[TOYA toys]

Yeah, but isn't asking someone "finding out for yourself"? I know that I only post questions after hours of trying to find out by reading what I find. If I haven't found what to read, then there is no "finding out for myself", which suggests I invent an answer to my question. My only way of finding out for myself then is to ask people that know. For example, I've poured over the FCOM FAQ, but never found out if Ren's Races would be compatible with FCOM. So I had to ask. Incidentally, is there an FCOm only thread that everyone is supposed to be using here? If so , link me and I'll bookmark it.

Linked in the opening post of the current FCOM thread http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:FCOM
That thread can be found here http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1054070

[Lawrence Armijo]

Linked in the opening post of the current FCOM thread http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:FCOM
That thread can be found here http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1054070

Thanks for that link to the compatibility section.

So the official FCOM thread is languishing in the forgotten area of pages long since expired? Weird they wouldn't sticky something like that. I mean sure an argument can be made they [Bethesda] don't take a position of favoring any one mod so wouldn't 'sticky' it on those grounds, but I mean it makes sense you see all of these FCOM threads when the actual FCOM page is lost in obscurity.

[Emma Parkinson]

Er, I know I post a lot, but I don't know if I'm one of the people to whom this thread applies. In the future if I ask an inane question just backhand me. Or do whatever the Internet equivalent to backhanding would be.

I'm usually the last person to know that I'm doing it wrong, so it's always nice to be told directly.

[electro_fantics]

So the official FCOM thread is languishing in the forgotten area of pages long since expired? Weird they wouldn't sticky something like that. I mean sure an argument can be made they [Bethesda] don't take a position of favoring any one mod so wouldn't 'sticky' it on those grounds, but I mean it makes sense you see all of these FCOM threads when the actual FCOM page is lost in obscurity.

Obscurity? People were posting in it yesterday. The only reason it's not on the main page today is because people keep making new threads instead of searching for FCOM and posting in the main thread.

[Tinkerbells]

Thanks for that link to the compatibility section.

So the official FCOM thread is languishing in the forgotten area of pages long since expired? Weird they wouldn't sticky something like that. I mean sure an argument can be made they [Bethesda] don't take a position of favoring any one mod so wouldn't 'sticky' it on those grounds, but I mean it makes sense you see all of these FCOM threads when the actual FCOM page is lost in obscurity.

Well, that would be nigh on impossible to sticky as it's currently almost set to open thread #47.
We could perhaps pass it out as a novel....
BTW, the last post in the thread was less than six hours ago, so I don't think it's that obscure.

[Everardo Montano]

I know that I only post questions after hours of trying to find out by reading what I find.

Good job. I meant that it annoys me when people don't read or utilize the tools they are given, such as google. I also get frustrated when people refuse to read the readme, then expect the community to restate multiple times what was stated in the readme for convenience. I guess my point just boils to this: use the utilities you know how to use and read
now I feel really stupid because i've realized that my point was almost the exact same as this threads point, but I just spend all that time realizing it.

[ILy- Forver]

Obscurity? People were posting in it yesterday. The only reason it's not on the main page today is because people keep making new threads instead of searching for FCOM and posting in the main thread.

Well let's put it this way, I didn't know it existed, or I would have immediately have thought to post my FCOM question in it, ergo my point about it needing to be stickied.
Did I look for an official FCOM thread before I posted? No, but again, if it was stickied I wouldn't have littered the forum with an FCOM-specific thread. Now I know, and now it's i my bookmarks. Playing devil's advocate for a minute though, as soon as it disappears (which is invariably will because it isn't stickied), you should expect newer people to make more FCOM related threads, because as far as they know, this entire section of the forum is the centralized meeting place for all things FCOM related.

[James Rhead]

Just to clarify, the opening post wasn't specifically about FCOM threads.
The same issue, although to a lesser extent exists for numerous mods.
Oscuro's, Marts, Wrye Bash....
Glance through the opening six pages of current threads and you'll get my meaning.

[casey macmillan]

It sounds to me like what needs to happen is a sticky thread with BIG BOLD LETTERS or something needs to ge created which has links to more permanent documentation sites. Like the wiki. USEP is there for a reason, may as well exploit it.

If the wiki had more prominent links to more of the popular topics, then maybe there wouldn't be so many people posting the same questions over and over again. Or, I could be an old crotchety fart stuck in his ways who thinks documentation should be easily discoverable.

I can't honestly say I blame people for not looking for the proper threads. The search function on this forum svcks balls, there's no polite way to put it. You have to dig deep into the advanced options just to find something to restrict by title. And let's not forget the whole "it has to be more than 3 letters" issue. Combine that with the general impatience of many internet users and you have a recipe for disaster.

So. Assuming it's not some kind of giant breach of protocol, perhaps relevant articles on the USEP wiki should be started and the readmes for the mods should be pointing there instead of vaguely telling people to come here to find the threads. Otherwise I honestly don't see this problem being solved.

[Princess Johnson]

Great suggestion Arthmoor - I like using the USEP and have found many solutions there too.

As for FCOM I would suggest that the currently active members create a current viable install instruction for installing FCOM and post it there.

Dev's site and the five fries are still best for the visual aids and rationale but the links and current updates are not found there. A better set of instructions need to be made - perhaps like BOSS and the google code page. A serious update of the Dev's page is needed, but in his absence and with current updates rolling out - it is fast becoming updated.

It is so much easier to follow than reading only the text in the threads here.

I see that a good portion of threads created here are of the variety where they may have read dev's site then read the thread here (or one of the main overhaul threads) then got confused and opened a new thread.

This is self-perpetuating.



also ... yeah the search option here is sorry at best.

[Soku Nyorah]

snip
I can't honestly say I blame people for not looking for the proper threads. The search function on this forum svcks balls, there's no polite way to put it. You have to dig deep into the advanced options just to find something to restrict by title. And let's not forget the whole "it has to be more than 3 letters" issue. Combine that with the general impatience of many internet users and you have a recipe for disaster.
snip

I think the same thing when I notice these repeat topics.
For the most part, I've been pretty quiet in my time within the community, but I do the work. Nine out of ten times I'll simple punch a bunch of random keys in the search box just to get a no results page, so I can hit the advanced search button. Then I tell it to show results as posts, just so I can read the context of the topic. For it seems the first few page's topic titles never have anything to do with what I've searched for. I've spent a great many hours searching through topics and posts on this site over the years, trying to get answers on my own, but sometimes it just isn't worth it. But, at least I try and succeed for the most part. And yes, the 4 letters or more rule is agonizingly frustrating with all the three letter acronym mods out there, or for key words like map or file extensions.

Indeed, this sites search function "svcks balls". It wouldn't surprise me if many of these repeat topic posters tried the search function at least once, but unsurprisingly got nothing in return and began their post.

Though sometimes it does beg me to wonder why the same topic from different posters share the same page space or why the same poster feels the need to make multiple threads of the same question, for no other reason than no one replied to the first one within 5 minutes.

[MARLON JOHNSON]

Nevermind - stupid comment anyway.

[Bryanna Vacchiano]

Is it just me?
I'm all for helping others where possible, but it appears to be coming a more and more frequent occurrence for users to start new threads with a question while the current thread is active.
This means fragmented information all over the forum, resulting in the same question cropping up dozens of times, sometimes within the space of a few days.
To give an example of this there are eleven threads spread over the first five pages currently for FCOM related issues. That doesn't include the normal crop of load order issue posts.
If these queries are addressed in the parent thread and the question satisfactorily answered, then that information is readily available and accessible to all just by reading or backtracking through one thread.
Apart from receiving often conflicting information from well intentioned members in these threads, the likelihood of a quick and accurate answer from the modder and users familiar with the inner workings of a specif mod in the home thread are perhaps tenfold.
I'm sure there are others who will read this and silently agree that it does get tedious repeating yourself five and six times a week.
Yes, the option is there not to reply to the poster, but that doesn't eradicate the issue.
Perhaps I'm just ranting, but I've been accused of being over zealous and harsh three times in the last few days for trying to direct users to a parent thread.

edit - and to RTFRM :swear: :banghead:

This is the oblivion mods forum :blink:

[Charles Mckinna]

Search limited to over five letters - 4 ignored.

FCOM - 4 letters, MMM and OOO - 3 letters.

Besides ... how many results would the get if they were able to search with 4 letters?

Would a noob even understand what relz meant?

Imagine my relief just now after checking to see if 4 letter searches were ignored, thankfully they're not. But as an illustration of the stupidity of the search system, this thread here is #1 for "FCOM". Ugh. At least the current FCOM thread did show up on the first page of hits though.

[Rhi Edwards]

This is the oblivion mods forum :blink:

That comment kinda lost me :huh:


edited for below comment - we are talking here about threads concerning mods, yeah?

[Monika]

That comment kinda lost me :huh:

well you've made this topic in the oblivion mods forum,
it should be in the general disscussion forum.
You know..like here http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showforum=18

[leigh stewart]

well you've made this topic in the oblivion mods forum,
it should be in the general disscussion forum.
You know..like here http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showforum=18

Well, the current problem is here in the Oblivion mods forum, so posting it in the general forum would just ensure that the people who start multiple, unnecessary threads here, wouldn't see it. And I fully agree with Shikishima - I'm all for helping newbies (and spend quite some time doing so), but get a bit irritated when it seems that the poster doesn't bother to do even a minimal effort himself. To me it is common courtesy when I'm new to a forum to read a bit and get to know the rules and standards there before posting, and to try to look if the info I seek is already present before asking for it.

But I do agree that the search function is really bad.

[ZzZz]

< snip >
But I do agree that the search function is really bad.

:brokencomputer: Anyone got some pull with Gstaff?