How will they be replacing these skills if they are not in Skyrim? I'm assuming they'll use perks to increase your running speed and jumping height/skill, but what perk tree will these perks be listed under? What kind of perks are you expecting for them?

It's not just perks. I'm assuming the more you increase your fatigue bar, the longer/(faster?) you can sprint.

The reason they took them out is because everyone runs/jumps when playing, why have a skill based solely on that? Waste of limited resources, if you ask me.

In other words, they were redundant. We don't know of perks will handle this, HOWEVER, there is a stealth Perk tree (Which has been confirmed since Jan.) Where you can select perks for daggers, sneak, etc. I assume some form of athletic/acrobatic perk will be in there too.

Sprint button for athletics, which will probably be tied to stamina. Acrobatics could have perks under the Sneak skill. Races and racial bonuses could factor in as well. Lots of possibilities.

Since Health replaces Endurance and Endurance also partially affected Fatigue (now Stamina), I'd say Health will also have an effect on running and jumping.

Stamina is replacing endurance I think.

Here's the only way I can possibly see any opportunity to have anything other than fixed movement speeds and jump heights - peg them directly to stamina. To use made-up numbers just to illustrate:

Stamina relates to movement speed at a 5 to 1 ratio. That means that a stamina of 100 equals a movement speed of 20. If you increase stamina to a maximum of 150, that's a maximum movement speed of 30. If you increase it to 200, that means a maximum movement speed of 40. And so on. As stamina diminishes, movement speed slows - when stamina reaches 0, you can't move. So movement speed will be as dynamic (or not) as stamina is. Ditto jump height.

I would expect encumbrance to figure in there too, though I'm not sure how. Increased encumbrance should burn stamina and lower movement speed by lowering stamina, but that's going to lead to the people who want to drag everything they just looted from a dungeon to town in a single trip complaining about it, and while I'd just tell them that's too bad, I don't think Beth will do that. We'll see.

I really don't see any other way it can be done without an attribute or skills to govern it. I could see some perks that will affect it, but I would expect them to be things that will increase maximum encumbrance or decrease the encumbrance from armor or maybe things that would slow or stop the rate of stamina decrease or increase the rate of stamina regeneration (ironically, exactly what the "useless" athletics skill did). And I don't see any way to have any sort of racial bonuses, unless there are racial bonuses to stamina, and that seems an odd way of doing it. The whole thing seems an odd way of doing it really though, since that'll mean that stamina will be integral both to a light and fast character and to a heavy armor tank, though for entirely different reasons. But I sincerely don't see any other way it can be done.

Other than fixed movement speed and jump height, but I really hope Beth isn't that..... well..... stupid is really the only word I can think of to use to describe that.

this is the important part

We don't know.

I think that would be quite paradoxical, because stamina increases your encumbrance / max weight capacity.

In both Morrowind and Oblivion, Endurance affected both Fatigue (along with Agility, Strength, and Willpower) and Health (alone).
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Endurance
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Endurance

By what you said here, I hope if this is how Skyrim's "athletics and acrobatics" work, then I also hope there are other ways of increasing your run speed besides sprinting and jump height via perks, etc. I would hate to have everyone have the same run speed like in Fallout3/New Vegas. Why? Because it doesn't make sense for a stealthy, speedy, high agility character who wears mostly clothing and light armor to not be able to outrun and out-jump a heavily armored guy.

Fatigue is now stamina.

Yeah, I know. Look at the following post from earlier:

I like that Idea a lot... except for the not being able to move part. Maybe if they did a severe reduction to movement speed and jump height (like -%50) would be better.

It would scale parallel to the amount of fatigue remaining but when you reached 0 fatigue, it would be -%50 instead of not being able to move at all. And maybe once you reached %0 you couldn't get rid of the -%50 speed/jump until you recovered at least 5% of your fatigue.

Ok I see what you were saying now. Sorry for the confusion. I agree with your statement as well.

Well... yeah. Sort of. I think it makes sense for the two to be interlinked (though that would tend to make one... *gasp*.... redundant). Imagine a nominal maximum encumbrance of 300 units. Establish a "comfortable" encumbrance at, say, 150. Anything up to that has no effect on stamina. As soon as you go over that, it starts burning stamina. Make the effect tiny at first, so that in normal play it still wouldn't be noticed - only if you ran a lot or jumped a lot or did a lot of power attacks or whatever would it have any noticeable effect, and that just that your stamina would decrease a wee bit faster and replenish a wee bit slower. But as encumbrance increases, the effect it has on stamina increases. Set it so that at, say 250, it'd be a noticeable effect - you'd be able to see that your character is burning through stamina abnormally fast (and by the bye - I think that encumbrance should be "under the hood" - the way you know you're approaching max encumbrance is by the effect it has on stamina). Keep accelerating the effect until you get to the nominal maximum of 300, and at that point, your character runs out of stamina and can't move - he's using every bit of his energy just to support his own weight and the weight of the stuff he's carrying and doesn't have a bit left over to so much as take a step. (*edit - or at least dramatically reduced movement - see below)

And then, yes, increases in max stamina would equal increases in encumbrance - the new maximum would be, say 350 units and the new comfortable level 175. Boost stamina again and the new maximum is 400 units and the new comfortable level 200. And so on.

Or something like that......



Eh. Personally, I detest the idea of still being able to move at zero fatigue, but I don't think I could say any more on the subject without being insulting, so I'll just leave it at that. And while if I had my way about it, zero fatigue would mean zero movement, I'm sure Beth won't do it that way anyway. So yeah - alter the scale however necessary so that you can still move with zero fatigue and I would guess that that'll be about the way it'll work.