Were the Devs who did the Trial of Vivec engaged in 'Fan [censored]' (what ever that really means rather than what certain people would like to pretend it means) then? And hey, the Devs who first roleplayed ES before it was ES were they engaged in 'fanwank' too?




Really? I have not stated that it MUST happen. Obviously unless or until either Divayth Fyr or Bagrum have the idea to clone Bagrum's cells to create children this is unlikely to happen in-game. And then they need to have knowledge of possible sane Dwemer Specters also. What I argue is that once that idea is there it's quite likely and then becomes a very serious proposition.

Really Weird, if you dislike roleplaying so much then just say so ... no reason to totally reverse your position to affirm that - it is far less likely that this bunch will ever try to honestly roleplay this than that someone will put a mod or expansion based on this together - making your response over the top.



Apparently all those Scottish people who were raised on isolated islands in the Hebredes were never actually Scottish :facepalm: Tosh = nonsense, talk with little thought and less commonsense. Certain of those Islands have just the one croft ... sometimes only a few - and frequent visits, radio, tv phones, the internet, planes etc are a purely modern phenomenon.

And I would have thought that mechacorporating dwemer (I suppose putting them into clones before another spirit reincarnates using that potential body would be possible?) would be the easy part - but yes they would need to settle and agree to take part so some would inevitable be lost along the way ... that could be problematical and add a lot of fun to the mix

Question is would cloning healthy Coprus-free cells would be the greatest challenge - along with actually bringing the little blighters up so that they do not turn out to be total brats. Turning them into what they already are would not be the hard part. :rolleyes:

Add in that the Nerevarine can be Nerevar's spirit in the body of a multitude of differrent races and there's another interesting twist.

emphasis mine. they are the devs, we are not. we fan-[censored], they dev-[censored].


what does that have to do with cloning the dwemer?


i agree with 99% of the people when i say this topic is beaten to death, then necromanced, then beaten to death again until it just got bored of being beaten and decided to lay there and take it.

Read the thread and you might figure out what was going on - or are you being deliberately misleading?

Perhaps if you?re an Altmer, or a Redguard.
I suspect the Dwemer upbringing occurred a bit like http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=KwnhRyBgjkM&feature=related (3:45 and beyond). If the machines are still there, Yagrum probably only needs to turn them on to educate the Dwemer Epsilons.

ive read the thread.

Saying a topic is "beaten to death" is a rather opinionated, and rather close-minded approach, no?


It's like saying "We dont need to spend 6 billion dollars on a particle accellerator to find out about gravity, when we can just drop an apple and see that it falls to know about it."

It totally overlooks the subtlety and complexity of the underlying phenomenon.



To me, (at least.) the dwemer represent rationality to the point of irrationality. It is not sufficient to say that the dwemer simply rejected reality---- They rejected reality, because they could PROVE it was false.

As stated earlier, my motivation for digging up the bones of some tired old ghosts, and giving them one last hurrah is not to engage in some role-played, and pitiful act of mental mastvrbation. I'd actually like to see what would happen if the dwemer had been able to succeed.

Maybe they did. IMHO.

yes, yes it is. however, i stand by it. while we can find all kinds of tiny new particles from the accelerator i haven't seen anything new coming out of this topic for a while now. feel free to carry on arguing though.

Interesting that in the 'Love Letters' there is a bit about someone digging in the that is very Dwemer reminiscent Maybe they were all destroyed when the giant stumpy was turned on and then reassembled in the future?

Or maybe the people writing that are a mix of Bagrums clones and the remains of the Dunmer after some future disaster.

Btw - all the ES games are roleplays Weird??? Do you play them?

I do, but I play the game, not roleplay as most people think of it.


If I were to roleplay, my persona archtype would be dangerously powerful in the TES universe. Magic would make me very dangerous indeed, since at the core of my personality, I hunger for knowledge and strive for practical application thereof.

A bit like Fyr, sans the 5000 year lifespan, I suppose--- At least in temperment. Powerful, but no ambition to rule.


My areas of interest would be in proto-realities, vivimancy (the study of life and the living, as opposed to necromancy-- the magic of death and the dead.), and mythical transformation, but I would not pass up learning opportunities in other areas either. Dwemer technology would fascinate me, and I would work tirelessly trying to rebuild and recondition dwemer ruins, despite silly imperial claims of ownership.



--------Naturally, this kind of roleplay submersion is not possible with current gaming technologies.



As a direct answer to your question, however, no. I dont play RPG games to role play-- I play them for the interactive story aspect.

I beg to differ - that kind of roleplay immersion is inherently possible with current gaming technologies - problem really is that the current gaming technologies are not being applied in such a way as to produce that kind of stuff ... big difference and a matter of choice.

actually the best chance of something like that happening might be that Zeni-Max statement about their mmorpg activities.

With something like that a transition from hack and slash orientation to strategic / philosophical / mythic has a high potential - look at Sid Meter's stuff. But to make it work you would need a practical framework that goes far beyond anything the Obscure Texts have attempted so far otherwise you negatively impact the main elderscrolls series.

Re something like that this thread could provide a useful starting point for a Neo-Dun/Dwe-mer civ.

You might actually create a series of browser-based games each taking a small area of a future aurbis etc ...

And done well something like that could well provide a great taster for a full mmorpg and a strong foundation for a new/future ES series.

I don't know if you have seen thecontinuum.com - the 7L team have done some marvellous stuff with Flash - tiny and colourful components with a high level of levelling complexity for such heavy processing platform ... to do an ES I would hope for a more resource-efficient platform though.

Inherently possible??? Are you sure you've got the right word there...

Are we being a bit picky?

Hows about by the current technical development and nature of the medium and the desired content is clearly possible?

If it has not been done yet that was a matter of choice as to the way that the technology was applied.

An ES MMORPG based on this thread?

Did I hear that correctly? :cryvaultboy:

Yes you did. And we're also about to recreate the old goes off-topic in Elder Scrolls Lore Forum Rule!

Well, in consideration, the consequences of off-topicality may actually be favorable here.

Since you 3 guys seem to have lost the thread of this thread by Jara of the Black Wind:




Now it came to pass that I noted this passage in the first paragraph of the "Loveletter From the Fifth Era, The True Purpose of Tamriel"



Althought there are Dunmer mines, the Dunmer are not really miners, nor underground people. So why use this as the opening to the whole letter? And it occurred to me that if you put Dunmer and Dwemer together these kind of activities become far more significant. As they stand the Dunmer are truly not going anywhere near 'science' and neither are any of the other mer - so where does this scientific future spring from? From that air fully formed - or as part of a process?

However the Dwemer of old specialised in Tonal dissonance and assonance ... so though I enjoyed speculating that all the Dwemer were translocated / reassembled some time in the future, for the above reason I reckon a more likely possibility is that the seeds were in fact sown in the current era - with that good old boy - Bagrum Yagrum and the ever superb Divayth Fyr.

Suberb though Divayth is there is no way he alone would spark such a rennaisance therefore there has to be a medium created to carry his ideas forward into the future - and a redefined Dwemer race tempered by and interbread with some Dunmer vision, common sense and reverance for the thinginess of the divinity of it all could go a long way to creating the necessary medium. And that would make Divayth's relationship with Bagrum really pay off.

The thing is that a genius too far ahead of the people around him is isolated and limited in his options, but when you have an entire people passing the ideas back and forth, finding ways to apply then etc ... then one mer's dream can become an entire world's reality - and beyond.

I doubt such a thing would happen, but I also doubt we've seen the last of the dwemer.

I would think we have. I could imagine another perspective on 'The Disappearence of the Dwarves' and possibly more lore delving into the matter, but for the race themselves I doubt we will ever see them in-game. Other than Bagarn and the specter of course.

You may be correct bittergreen, but it could be worse if the naysayers get their way: for it is written that if they cannot have the entire dwemer civ in all it's glory resurrected they will have none of it, so it appears they have plans to do away with Bagrum and the remaining useless wraiths too ... and all the dwemer Lore, devices and colonies will have to be eliminated according to their way of thinking.

For is it not written that they are the keepers of the Holy Obscure Texts (and contributors to them whenever it takes their fancy) and therefore like unto or superior to devs themselves - thus none but them shall have 'ideas' nor 'inspiration' and most assuredly they are the fount of all intelligence and rectitude and therefore can do pretty much what they want.

They're not coming back. Just face it.

Opine, pontificate and eulogize all you want and can, it's not going to change the fact that the dissaperance of Dwemer was an integral part of Morrowind's plotline. It was ordained before Morrowind even came out, and is now set in stone.

Well if I had the power to represent other people's contributions in a manner the writers had never thought of, as your pals have, then your last post would be quoted as it's: going to change the fact that the disappearance of Dwemer was an integral part of Morrowind's plotline is irrelevant because it is written in words and they can be reinterpreted - as so much of ES has been. Just look at what happened in Oblivion.'

please forgive the spelling correction

And if the 1,000th richest man in the world comes along and says here's $200million I want to invest in your company and hey, I like those Dwemer guys, I would like to revive their fortunes by having Divayth Fyr clone Bagum Yagrum etc in a major expansion, the next full release or in a web-based game, as part of the deal what do you think is going to happen?

Is that seriously your argument? This discussion is way past scraping the bottom of the barrel for retorts... And if you want correct spelling, you could try not to misspell Yagrum Bagarn in every single post (the correct spelling is right in the title of the thread).

Besides, he didn't say it can't change, he said it's not going to.

:turtle:

Technically, they're not gone. They're still here, just as ghosts

Ah, right and you are a member of the Board of Zeni Max so you know that he knows what he's talking about?

Who cares whether what I said is an argument since he and his pals are simply using the thread to jibe at the ideas of others? He was trying to claim absolute knowledge of gamesas and Zeni Max'z plans as his argument he just moved into the realms of nonsense - that was my argument + the way I read Zeni-max is that they are open to big investors of good reputation. Where you appear to support people who lay claim to knowledge they do not have to win arguments that they do not really believe in and cannot argue honestly.

I don't see this as a contest of retorts though it's clear that you and various others do

What I was doing was trying to enjoy the complexities and possibilities inherent in ES Lore - you apparently believe that only he and his pals have real knowledge of Lore and may say whatever they like. But The Imperial Library , after all these years, still does not have the complete list of in-game books ...

You may be correct about the name - I have always called him Bagrum Yagrum or Yagrum Bagrum because it amuses me.