I did update the first post to clarify no harm intended so please have another look.

Your never going to be able to cover everything in a manual on a subject which is by its nature open to creative design and evolving suggestion.

Its not like describing how an engine works, its like describing all the things you could do to an engine if you really put in the time.

True


Without knowing how an engine works who would understand any of the things you could do to it and why, given the time.

Actually, you could compare the geck more to legos than an engine.
You can get a manual of how to build something with legos, but from there to list all the combinations, or documenting that a certain red block of the set is a little bent so you should use it with care... you get the idea ^_^

Which is the answer i expected...

Beth's games have one of the biggest modding communities around and frankly, most games don't even give modders an opportunity with a construction set.

Really, we get it quite easy compared to most other cs's which aren't as easy to learn and don't have as big a wiki or as many video tutorials.

Bethesda is busy creating good games, releasing a guide which would just be the wiki in paper form wouldn't be as beneficial for them as making new games.

It's true. Bethesda provides huge support for their modding community. The only other company that provides this kind of service is Valve. The wiki is great, the forums are fantastic, the community is friendly and brimming over with generosity, and it is much, much easier to mod than it used to be. You can't possibly cover everything you need to know about modding in a book, it will go out of date, it's not as good as a wiki, and you do have to be creative and learn how to experiment and solve problems. Plus, producing a 'how-to' book is definitely not the best use of Bethesda's time and resources. I agree 100%, completely.

But I would still buy a book because I'm a :nerd: and I love modding! :rock: (And I own Half-life 2 Mods for Dummies. )

And I still learn best from books; I'm not ashamed to admit that I'd love to have my hand held at every step of the process. Does this mean that my ability to think creatively and solve problems is atrophying? Psht. That's utter hog-wash. I want to have my hand held because becoming a technical savant is not my prime objective. My prime objective is telling stories and creating compelling worlds for other people to explore. I can't be solving these much more interesting (to me) problems if I'm spending all my time solving technical problems that have already been conclusively solved by others. Picking your battles is a sign of intelligence, not negligence. Don't assume that because someone with less technical inclination and interest is having difficulty with a technical problem it is because they are less intelligent and determined than yourself. That's a lazy and insensitive assumption. I'm not trying to single anyone out with these statements, because, on the whole, everyone is trying to be very helpful and considerate and 'tell it like it is'. I'm just saying it because it needs to be said. Not everyone is like yourself, and that needs to be remembered and respected.

What I was saying is, Nifskope is not part of the GECK, and there aren't any Fallout specific functions to applying glowmaps, so the crictisim of the tutorial isn't completely valid. Is all.

Update::
Hiya Folks, just wanted to give a update, WillieSea, took it upon himself to help me and the team out in getting this Slot machine up and working, it now works so should start seeing more progress happening with the mod now.

WillieSea I give you a big round of Applause! Also a big thxs from the bottom of my heart!

Could'nt have figured this out without your guidance!

:celebration: :bowdown:

Cheers CJ

That is not really an appropriate summary of the wiki. The wiki gives us almost all of what we need and in time will cover even more.

If I can put together a city, companion and quest using the wiki, then the great majority of what someone needs is in there. It was only when I reached advanced dialogue options, which could probably do with its own wiki section, where I needed help. Also a section on common errors and the reason why would be good but as we have just agreed upon, who could guarantee a manual would even include every facet I 'would like'.

There really needs to be an emoticon that shows someone pinching their nose between their eyes, almost like the face palm but more frustrated.
MY POINT IS a poorly written tutorial/guide/manual/how-to etc is just that, Poorly written
as it skips steps, and assumes previous knowledge of the reader.

A well written tutorial/guide/manual/how-to etc assumes that the reader is starting from absolute ZERO knowledge!

I had to write these all the time at my previous job, step-by-step guides on how to build this or that assembly,
and I had to guide the reader by the hand as if they had never built the assembly in their lives before.
I had to get down to the smallest of details, and My Boss, (who never built an assembly in her life) was the
one who would take these guides and try to build one, following my steps, the premise being, if she could build one
following my guide/tutorial then anyone could.

We did this for 250+ guides/tutorials.

To all the 'old-timers' saying "Figure it out for yourself and read the Wiki"
Have any of you written a tutorial/guide/how-to that is on the Wiki?

The only contributor from this thread I see is Echonite.

If No, Why Not?

I remember a guy back in Morrowind went by the name of Ghan buri Ghuran-something. something like that

He wrote what you would call a modding "Book" (printed out, it was hundreds of pages and as thick as a book)

This has kind of been my point all along here.

How far ahead is everyone now thanks to Miaximus' guide on how to add holotapes with voices?

That guide is priceless! (And should be added to the wiki)

40-43 steps involved thanks to the GECKs obfuscated way of doing things.

Thanks to Miaximus, that's one more Dragon slain.

And if he didn't write that guide, Many a mod would come to a screeching halt right about now.

As it is, even with the guide, the steps involved in adding a holotape with a voice in the GECK are beyond ridiculous and certainly
aren't conducive to cranking out quest mods.

We're all just lucky someone actually figured out the twisted and not-at-all-intuitive witchcraft involved in getting holotapes
into the game.

Thank you Tyana Rie!! Let me add it makes one feel very good inside when contributing something that helps others out - its the teacher-instinct I think. I'm about 50% done with Artisten's guide on GIMP/Blender/Nifscope, still finishing my house move so taking a bit longer on that one.

Actually I think Tyana was just trying to help you out merunnin, by pointing out that opening the lower-window in Nifscope with F3 is very important - and is absolutely right - F3 is omitted from the tutorial and as, "Assumed" knowledge. I for one had no idea myself about F3, and learned too that day. I'm still new to Nifscope, and appreciate every little tidbit that modders offer here, on the WIKI and in video tutorials.

It would be a different thing if we were actually Paying Bethesda for the GECK - then there would be profit involved and more motivation to, "Productize" the GECK. As it stands do you have any idea how Lucky we are as a modding community that Bethesda went So Far out of their way to release the GECK?!? Heck I for one am simply amazed that we got a tool as good as the GECK for FREE, and am dedicating my mod to Bethesda when complete in honor of how much work they put into the thing.

Yes its confusing at times, un-documented in spots, and still holds many mysteries that we will have to uncover as a modding community. In time we will sort out the most critical, and more tutorials will come out (I plan to write alot more when my mod is done). And I for one do not mind criticism of my Tutorials one bit! If there is something wrong with it, I would rather have someone point it out to me so I can fix it! Its not something to get emotional about.

Lets get back to Modding then, and stop begging for print manuals that will never exist. The WIKI is awesome, the tutorials we create fill in the gaps with the live perspective, and the Forum offers excellent help-desk support. I really don't see the problem here.

M

I wasn't trying to summarize the Wiki at all, I was just trying to rebut your statement. I have said I love the Wiki w/o it I would never have started to try to mod at all. I find things that SHOULD be in the Wiki in my internet travels just as Tyana Rie just pointed out. I found a thread somewhere on the boards here this was a GREAT step by step guide on custom weapons also I think TheDamned's guide to installing mods should be there as well, w/o that I wouldn't of started to DL mods again....first couple of times didn't work out .Does anyone get it I am NOT Wiki bashing, and this is just MY opinion and MY hopeless wish to pay(and I'm a disabled with a family of 6) for an official manual. Hey face, it some people would pay for it and some wouldn't. I know VERY little about modding now I'd say close to 0 but for me and others like me it would be helpful as well as all the other resources at our disposal. There is always a market for the book series "anything for dummies" maybe we can get them in on it and make "G.E.C.K.ing For Dummies".

To be honest, I think you would be alot more successful by focusing on your mod's planning, write it all up and/or document it in some way so you know exactly what you need to do in your mod. That plan will lead you into specific technical challenges with the GECK that can each be overcome one at a time - with the help of the WIKI, tutorials or we in the forum if those sources run dry.

Build your mod brick by brick, or as the Chinese says, "A man starts to move a mountain by carrying small stones". While I don't think a comprehensive manual will ever exist for the GECK, if you focus on your specific needs, you'll stand a much better chance at finding the information you really need - or folks here will help to develop it.

Luck,

M

Hiya Folks,

I know I already said I was done posting here but something just pop'd into my head. I feel since we won't have a manual.,
that the experienced section of modders, it will fall to them to contribute much more to Wiki to fill in those missing areas.

Also I think as long as it's within reason and asked with politeness, those that have the knowledge if they can help people like my self with things were unfamilar with, for example my, slot machine problem, "WillieSea took it upon himself to help me with that, as a result I now have it working in our mod and I can move forward now, and can't thank you Miaximus enough for all your help or Echonite or the many others, I just ask that those of you modders that have the skills and knowledge if your not doing it already if you could lend a helping hand to us folks who are trying to learn the modding and to the rest of you modders who so freely give of your time and helpful info, I salute you and give you a great round of applause! :thumbsup: :goodjob:

Best Regards

CJ

I think your reading a bit too much into what I said. My post didn't say you were wiki bashing but you can't have it both ways, in your opinion, my opinion, John Does opinion, either the material is there to do what most people want to do or it isn't.

Being a creative subject the more technical and creative sides to modding have almost infinite possibilities, sure a few more articles could do with going up but its impossible to cover all the eventualities. The base few that could do with going up will almost certainly do so eventually in some form.

I'm willing to help, but I do it on the forum so that others can correct me... a wiki feels too permanent or something. And to be honest, I've never contributed to a wiki... I have no idea even where to begin on that.

I have before but I personally don't like the fact my work can be edited to a form beyond my control, corrected is fine but often those edits can take full blown articles in a completely different direction.

That said, this kind of technical wiki is less prone to that, as there is more of a universal truth if you will. I think a week down the line I will be more inclined to begin a page or two on companions, common errors and a dialogue reference for example functions (moreover those functions not currently with any information). I am not sure if it will be useful but I know they would of been to me when I started, so no doubt they will help other people eventually.

The reason I haven't contributed is because I'm a noob. I've figured some things out for myself in this game, but other things just make me scratch my head and say "wtf?". I've been modding since Morrowind although I never really achieved much and I never really got into Oblivions modding community, but there might be one or two of my equipment mods floating around out there still. Fallout seems to have the best of the communities(really! I haven't seen four threads a day about a TC for FF3-9 with anime hair and buster swords everywhere) so that is why I decided to be more active.


Erm, guess what I am saying is, "If there isn't an entry in the wiki for it, you can always make a request or help thread".

That's is what I have to do half the time, the other half I spend mostly drinking coffee and yelling at the T.V.

I think a lot of people are afraid of the Oblivion wiki for some reason.... a LOT of the articles there apply to Fallout... and someone earlier was saying how TheDamned's mod guide got them modding.... but that guide is just an edit/update of the Oblivion mod FAQ... I mean, the same principles apply. The tools are different.. instead of OBMM, it's FOMM... but is it really impossible to bridge the gap from one to the other? Yeah Fallout should have its own wiki entries, but come on..

Three things

1, I am unsure on the grounds for copying information across from one to the other, either officially from Bethesda or in regards to copyright of the material.
2, I have found several functions which work different or simply don't work at all and unless you know them word for word, it would be unwise to simply copy the information across.
3, You have a computer why not begin

Part of this issue, however, is that there isn't always help available. For instance, I'm trying to hammer through the LAST major issue I have with the LOD system. But there has been no one who can answer, much less who WILL answer, on the forums.

Now, I realize there won't be a manual. I realize why there won't be a manual. I even realize the request for the manual is a bit of a trap for Bethesda, because they CAN'T do it and some people believe they have all the time in the world on their hands. I am merely pointing out there is an existing issue that should be addressed in some way, shape, or form.

I know very little about LOD... and it sounds like by this point you know quite a bit. Perhaps you're the next trailblazer in that area. :celebration:

Can you give us more details on the LOD issue? I recall a thread from you on it, but the details were a bit on the light-side.

LOD is one of the great painful parts of the GECK that does need a manual or tutorial. I myself have not ventured down the LOD trail yet as I'm waiting until I'm done with the area creation before doing that, but I know there have been ALOT of posts about LOD on the forum here.

If you post lots of details and ask nicely (even bumping your post if it goes un-answered) will do the trick. Often times when there is no answer it means that very few people know the secret, and they all don't read the forums at the same times. An abundance of detail on the issue and persistence will win in the end.

Luck,

M

You may be thinking of Staple Ninja, who I began working with to expand across the board, and who didn't (initially) explain the problem correctly.

Consequently, I just discovered the answer to my problem, so I no longer need the help. Although I will be writting a guide to LOD to help the community.

So what was your problem, and how did you fix it? O.o