Alright, I started a thread this morning voicing my displeasure with the way the new elves were designed in a few sentences that were quickly slung at the forum, and it blew up into 11 pages including a dev response between then and me going out to lunch. Unfortunately the thread was closed down before I could respond to the dev myself, which is why I'm opening a new thread. Hopefully this will be slightly more constructive.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1226101-why-do-elves-look-so-derpy/

Here is what Vsions said:


First of all, I feel kind of bad to have illicited a dev response by writing something that was intentionally inflamatory, I feel like a troll in a suit right now.

What I would like to say in reply to this is though: I personally don't feel that "Tolkien Elves" and "Skyrim Elves" is a dichotomy. There are dozens of ways to put a unique spin on elves that are neither of the two. I can fully understand that they weren't meant to look like perfect, pretty humans, and the whole game has sort of a rough and gritty tone to it, which is something that people loved about Morrowind.
My main concern with the design for the Elves is not that they aren't pretty enough, it's that their features seem rough cut and brutish. Many people mentioned they were bothered by the large brow ridges on these designs, and I wholeheartedly agree, it simply makes them look like neanderthals, and in many regards makes them seem closer to orcs than humans. Their faces are also disproportionately long with the eyes often found above the middle of their head, which instantly makes them seem really disproportional. (Brink had very unique face designs for its characters that sort of suffered the same problem, realistic skin textures combined with exaturated features just look really surreal)
The thing I really don't get though is how they are inspired by Morrowind. I don't recognize the Morrowind influence at all.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/morrowind/races/highelfmale.jpg
http://static.twoday.net/SchreiberOhneGrenzen/images/altmer.jpg

These just don't seem to have any resemblance to these faces:

http://cdnstatic.gamesas.com/bethblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/HighElfCompilation1-938x1024.jpg

The golden skin seems gone and is now more of an olive, light brown tone. That was already removed in Oblivion for the most part - I personally thought that brought them much closer to being humans with pointy ears than anything. There are really heavy brow ridges on all the males, the fine noses are replaced with really wide ones for the most part. They have beards all the sudden. Also what I find kind of odd is that there seem to be different ethnicities of Altmer now. Also the eyes are now completely yellow, making them look like they have jaundice.

Honestly, I just don't see the resemblance to morrowind. In morrowind all the altmer faces looked regal. They weren't pretty per se, but they had this carved, surreal and haunting quality about them. Their faces seemed classic and timeless above all else, always a reminder of their long lives and even longer history.


I really like some of the older Elderscrolls artwork.

http://images.uesp.net/6/6d/Lore-race-Altmer.png
http://theskyrimblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/dark-elf.jpeg
(These were in the pocket guide to Tamriel that came with the Oblivion collectors edition I think, though the artwork might be older than that)

When I look at the new ones the first thing that pops into my mind is this guy:

http://cdn102.iofferphoto.com/img3/item/134/155/621/beauty-and-the-beast-complete-series-dvd-linda-hamilton-ec0d1.jpg


So yea, I'm all for keeping things fresh, and I'm certainly not someone who just wants elves to be these perfect pretty creatures, I just honestly don't see the resemblance to Morrowinds facial designs, and I think the wide set eyes, thick brows and large chins just make them look brutish rather than sophisticated.

Skyrim Dunmer look badass, bosmer not so much


http://loudmouthedgamers.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/dark-elf-skyrim-default-938x1024.jpg



Edit: be happy they are not like (to quote someone I don't remember's name): "Santa's little helpers." like in Oblivion

I can clearly see how much effort you put into this thread... But I'm going to be honest.... it's too damn big to read. You think Elves are Derpy, don't pick em'. I don't think they are. It's all opinion.

I read the entire post.

I think what Vsions said sums this all up perfectly.



I absolutely love the race design in Skyrim, and I'm very impressed with the Elves (something I was originally concerned about, as I play a Dunmer).

Considering what the Mer looked like in Oblivion, I couldn't be happier with their new look. Dunmer actually look like a cursed race with ashen gray skin, instead of bluey green. The Bosmer also look great considering they looked like a bunch of wimpy gimboids in Oblivion and I'm fairly certain that nobody could take the males seriously.

I'm glad they look more 'alien', it makes them look unhuman and strange.

eh, I think they resemble the morrowind ones more, and I LOVE the new look for the elves.

As vsions said different strokes for different folks. Nothing to do about it now. But I like the way they've ended up, and you may come to appreciate it too when you play skyrim and see them animated. Only time will tell.

I like the new faces with two exceptions:

1) Skin colours. Imperials are too dark and scruffy (hard to separate the different human races), Altmer too un-goldy, Bosmer too close to Dunmer (et.c.). This is easy to correct with a mod for those who care, though.
2) Hairdos. Altmer and Bosmer in particular had these really elaborate hairdos in Morrowind which, in my opinion, really defined the races as something unique. This time around, everyone seems to share the same category of hairstyles. Boring.


(I should also add that they are a huge improvement over OB)

Same, it's exactly how it should be imo.

Quite an interesting opinion, but I'm sure their faces will look a LOT better once you can see them moving in-game. And even if that doesn't improve them for you, that's what PC's and construction sets were made for.

This

Our opinions differ. My first response to the elf designs were: "Nice, they look similar to Morrowind's designs." That's especially apparent in this picture of a Dark Elf http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:SR-character-IGN_wLegal.jpg The face structure is more rugged and defined. And even though they're not pretty, I like their designs.

I would have liked the Altmer to have a more graceful look about them.

The Morrowind ones look very similar, just with less detail. Same long chin, same gaunt face, ect. They also look similar to the ones from the First Pocket Guide.

If you go too "goldy" with skin color it ends up looking like you have liver disease. I think they nailed it. And I don't see how the dunmer and bosmer skin color is remotely close if you are looking at the presets.

i would disagree on the point that they look like neanderthals. To me they look more alien than anything else. also if you want that morrowind yellow skin tone to play out....well, sorry that color would not work in the more realistically realized world of skyim. the color is far too saturated. the elven race is older than men, therefore it makes sense that their features are more...direct and pronounced. Not in the sense of brutishness, but rather giving the connotation of an older people, less concerned with their elegance and more concerned with other worldly matters. I dont particularly LIKE the new altmer, i like the Bosmer and the Dunmer are ok. But I can see the argument. And thats all I really expect, something where I can see the argument they are making.

I say if the look of the elves can get that response from you, then Bethesda has succeeded. They look exactly what they should look like.

I absolutely love the new racial designs for each race. I mean, they made Bosmer look bad ass... Pretty sure vsions deserve a medal for that.

It's a bit unfair of me, really, but I have to comment on one thing you wrote : "it simply makes them look like neanderthals, and in many regards makes them seem closer to orcs than humans. " TES elves are closer to Orcs than humans, what with Orcs ( and Dunmer ) being changed Elves. That's the way it should be.

I could NEVER take serious anyone who chose to use the word 'derpy' to provide feedback on something I did; positive or negative (honestly, cause I have no damned idea what the hell 'derpy' is)

Again, this.

Bethesda has nailed the elves. They are supposed to make you feel uneasy, because they are alien.

They just what i imagined Discworld elves as.... beautiful, but different, they make you feel uneasy.... they have lovely singing voices, are graceful, and love to play games

violent games like...
-breaking your arms and watching you writhe in pain
-seeing if you run faster than an arrow
-etc...

Discworld elves HATE humans....


and what Y'ffre said below me

I'll just repost in what I've said in the last thread with some slight elaboration.

Elves aren't humans. I repeat. Elves. Aren't. Humans. They don't think like us, age like us, or live like us. So there's no reason why should even look like us or appeal to us, especially the elves in Elder Scrolls if your read the lore. The elves of Nirn are vindictive blighters that come in flavors of haughty, magical inbreds, cannibalistic, shape-shifting savages, and cursed, theocratic slavers whom all three would love to see the world destroyed in the name of their salvation, or at least the extinction of humanity and the enslavement of the beastmen. They're not pretty, they're alien. They have alien cultures, alien beliefs, alien practices. The elves in Skyrim actually look like a race apart for once.

Yea, but they look close to orcs in the regard that the Altmer look thick skulled and brutish in this format, which is simply not what they should be.


I still don't get how "Let's give them really thick brow ridges that make them look like early hominids" makes them alien and unsettling, to me it makes them look like they aren't the sharpest tools in the shed and that's all.