agree
made a new character
warrior basically, doesn't need any mana really but occasionally I use the restoration spell when in trouble
lot less effort than hauling around potions

restoration worked fine for my mage as well so far (lvl 30 ish)
mostly using the basic healing spell and just dual casting it (without the dual casting perk in restoration)

do agree that the whole restoration school is a one trick pony as all it's really good for is healing yourself

When you make a game that has to appeal to every playstyle imaginable
You ask yourself
1. Can you be a pure warrior who doesnt rely on magick or making potions?
2. Well u would have to find potions in the wild or in stores...
3. These potions would have to scale to your level because the stronger you get the more health you could have
4. Can we implement this in a way that doesnt impede someone who is a restoration mage would find "blatantly overpowered"

Well...can you?
Find a way to allow pure warriors to heal themselves without having to put perks into restoration or alchemy and still level up their health without having to stay incumbered by having to lug around potions that dont heal as much anymore.....

I don't get the "potion weight adds up" argument. They are the only extra items in your inventory that should ever actually remain after you clear a dungeon. Gold is so plentiful anyway that you can't honestly be saying that you need extra space for sellables. Most weapons and items are not worth the weight anyway (should not keep items that weigh more than 3g per lb). Unless you run around with the default stamina in heavy armor and keep all of the dragon bones and scales on you, potion weight is a pretty lame excuse.

Yeah if you thought about it for a second, you will see that alchemy also has those awesome 100%+ to blacksmith/onehand/twohand/archery damage plus source of instant healing. You brought up minor potion but really stop with strawman, you can begin to brew something better than that so easily.

Tough choice huh?

Restoration is way more reliable, especially Fast Healing and the perk that doubles the spells effectiveness.
I run out of potions

I disagree. I frequently use the healing spells, because I can never find freakin healing potions and the vendors always sell like, one. I wish there were more healing potions lying around...

I say it myself sometimes, and I have been known to talk about self control and personal responsibility etc. The thing is I have a basic set of guidelines instead of knee jerking to don't do it then. Basically it comes down to is the thing you are complaining about working the system or is it a normal course of the system/gameplay. Recursive stacking of potions and enchants to make super gear does not bother me and I think don't like it don't use it applies, you are working the system you are going out of your way to screw with it so don't complain that it is broken.(not that fixing it would be bad, but just unnecessary) Potions on the other hand are thrown at you in such huge numbers and they are vastly superior to magical healing so it is a more normal course of play issue and here I don't think don't like it don't use it applies. Some level of balance is needed because while it is in an open world it is still a game and the game rules should not be broken on the face of things.

These statements are true. Once you hit around level 40 and up, ultimate potions are everywhere, so alchemy is reserved for special potions or poisons, and instaheal/stamina/magic make restoration seem redundant.

Restoration (can) fill in for alchemy or potions and do a suitable job if you want to make an RP choice rather than a powergame choice.

its fine the way it is

Depends on the situation but the basic heal with novice and regeneration and recovery perks can be very useful in fights much more useful than potions, where you might need a lot of them. Also they're good for healing after a fight, saves on potions.

There's also the heal others spell which you could use on your follower if you use one to keep it in the fight longer.

I love some of the replys on here, they make me laugh. Some people don't care that they can carry 20 healing pots and use them all in one fight, while others think it should be limited to number you can carry or use at one time. I personally prefer the old D&D approach, such as in Balder's Gate II. Its been a long time since I played BDII, but if memory serves healing potions were not very plentiful in the world as loot, and they were expensive to buy. This made having a dedicated healer and one alternate healer in your party essential. Also, the healing potions only came in 2-3 varieties of strength, and the minor healing potions became useless at high levels for anyone but your mages/healers with really low HP pools. This did 4 things: 1) Any time you found potions as loot was special 2) You did not buy, hoard, and consume tons of healing pots as it was simply not easily done do to limited supply/price 3) Healing potions became your solution to extremely difficult/boss fights, and were not used for just any average monster clash 4) Healing spells were essential. Now then, I know that Skyrim is entirely different from the group RPGs like BGII, and that you can't expect to play one like the other. But my storage chest in my house in Whiterun has a stockpile of healing/mana/stamina pots that would make a BGII character cry with joy, the same as if he had just found 50,000 gold (gold was not available in the vast qauntities that Skyrim possesses either).

Seriously though, healing/mana/stamina potions are so plentiful the only reason to take Alchemy is if you want to make uber potions or if you just enjoy it. They make Restoration useless, unless you are RPing or just like to use it. Yes, Restoration does a few things other than heal such as turn undead/wards, but it is a minimal return on effort for those pursuing Restoration. I think that potions are so easy to come by in the game that you could never buy a single potion or use a single Resto heal spell and never run out of potions. I personally play as a mage, and use Resto to heal myself and my followers most of the time. I carry only a few heal/mana pots for emergencies, but can't seem to help myself when I see them laying around as loot. My OCD to pick up every potion I see has lead to quite the collection in my home, as I only sell off potions that I know I will NEVER have a use for. And so to the final point, I think that potions should be less plentiful as loot for 2 reasons: 1) This would make Alchemy more useful, since you could make more/better potions than you could find and 2) Restoration would be more useful since the likely hood of running out of potions would be much higher, meaning people would prefer Resto in non-emergencies and fall back on the potions for really tough fights.

Wasnt there a limit to the potions you could use in Oblivion? I haven't run into it in Skyrim yet, so I guess there isnt one. I do use potions over Restoration in battle though. I am a lvl 17 stealth/mage and I need all my magic for damage.

Its a sandbox game, so make your choice.

I agree with the sentiment of making restoration more equal to potion chugging as an option... but alchemy is anything but useless. Alchemy allows mages to almost double their damage (or quad if you are willing to apply weakness poison), and is part of the infamous alch/ench/bs trifecta of doom that let you create 700+ dmg weapons.

Cake is worthless coz pie tastes so much better.

Don't like the way potions work? Don't use them. Think that restoration is all you need? Use it.

This is a single player game. All playstyles are valid.

Pretty much my story as far as Elder Scrolls is concerned. I can tell you a bit about Oblivion and some about Skyrim (that I've played so far). Otherwise, it's an awesome open ended do-whatever-you-want type of RPG.

Heretic!

PUKE.

BORING!

Give it a rest already.

I am not trying to start a fight, but you seriously can't find enough? Maybe there is some glitch where the more pots you use, the fewer you find and vice-versa because I rarely use them and it seems like I find no fewer than 6 pots of each type (heal/mag/stam) in every dungeon I enter. Perhaps I don't realize how fast a character who relies exclusively on potions goes through them, but they seem very plentiful, IMO.

no, the reason restoration svcks is because you have to put heal on one of your hands, no more can i have sword and shield and tap LB to heal while fighting

I agree with what you are saying as well, but I did not say Alchemy was useless, just that it would be more useful if it was not so easy to find potions lying around. There are some people that want to use Alchemy to restore health/mag/stam, and not just to make their crafting skills crazy as hell. IMO, it is so easy to find plenty of these types of potions that it takes some of the usefullness out of the craft. But, too each his own, as there are a couple of people on this forum who think it is too hard to find enough heal pots, so obviously there is even dissent over this part of the debate.

You forgot the part where you can heal your allies quick and easily with grand heal, something no minion master should go without.

The weight is pretty insignificant, you can carry more than enough to never die. That doesn't really balance the pros of potions at all.

They needed to either make potions all be HoT based with a limit on how many you can have active, or make them take real time and an animation to drink. Wouldn't even have to be super long, just 3 seconds or something around that. And yes, 3 seconds is enough time to take a hit, that's kind of the point. It should involve some amount of strategy rather than being a total crutch that you can use at any time to prevent death instantly.