Restoration Healing is worthless coz Potions are Overpowered

Post » Sun May 27, 2012 12:08 pm

I love some of the replys on here, they make me laugh. Some people don't care that they can carry 20 healing pots and use them all in one fight, while others think it should be limited to number you can carry or use at one time. I personally prefer the old D&D approach, such as in Balder's Gate II. Its been a long time since I played BDII, but if memory serves healing potions were not very plentiful in the world as loot, and they were expensive to buy. This made having a dedicated healer and one alternate healer in your party essential. Also, the healing potions only came in 2-3 varieties of strength, and the minor healing potions became useless at high levels for anyone but your mages/healers with really low HP pools. This did 4 things: 1) Any time you found potions as loot was special 2) You did not buy, hoard, and consume tons of healing pots as it was simply not easily done do to limited supply/price 3) Healing potions became your solution to extremely difficult/boss fights, and were not used for just any average monster clash 4) Healing spells were essential. Now then, I know that Skyrim is entirely different from the group RPGs like BGII, and that you can't expect to play one like the other. But my storage chest in my house in Whiterun has a stockpile of healing/mana/stamina pots that would make a BGII character cry with joy, the same as if he had just found 50,000 gold (gold was not available in the vast qauntities that Skyrim possesses either).

Seriously though, healing/mana/stamina potions are so plentiful the only reason to take Alchemy is if you want to make uber potions or if you just enjoy it. They make Restoration useless, unless you are RPing or just like to use it. Yes, Restoration does a few things other than heal such as turn undead/wards, but it is a minimal return on effort for those pursuing Restoration. I think that potions are so easy to come by in the game that you could never buy a single potion or use a single Resto heal spell and never run out of potions. I personally play as a mage, and use Resto to heal myself and my followers most of the time. I carry only a few heal/mana pots for emergencies, but can't seem to help myself when I see them laying around as loot. My OCD to pick up every potion I see has lead to quite the collection in my home, as I only sell off potions that I know I will NEVER have a use for. And so to the final point, I think that potions should be less plentiful as loot for 2 reasons: 1) This would make Alchemy more useful, since you could make more/better potions than you could find and 2) Restoration would be more useful since the likely hood of running out of potions would be much higher, meaning people would prefer Resto in non-emergencies and fall back on the potions for really tough fights.
Good Post! I would add that drinking a potion took a TURN. That means no attacking, no blocking, no nothing. Just healing yourself. And only ONE potion. In all of the Bethesda Games Alchemy has been overpowered because you lost NOTHING to use one. Or frigging 20! It takes time to heal with restoration. Not so with potions. About to die? Pop the inventory screen open and drink 10 or so potions to heal right up. God it makes the game trivial. Why does Bethesada never address this?! They try SO hard to make the game hard with level scaling. Christ there is not a battle that is not winable wih 30 healing potions. Why give the players a "I Win button!" Why I don't use alchemy. Easier to just open the console and type "TGM"

Edit: And anyone who says the potions weight is a balance is just lying to themselves. A good warrior character only really has trouble against a boss. You have a lot of problems if you are dying to a bandit at level 20! So ten potions of healing is more then enough to slug through any dungeon. All at the massive cost of 5-10 pounds. Or even better just load up on 100 pounds of healing potions during a dungeon crawl and drop them once you are done and go loot! What a joke. Alchemy has been broke since Morrowind. At least Obsidian tried to fix it in with hardcoe mode in Fallout New Vegas, That is saying something when Obsidian says it is too easy.
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suzan
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 10:57 am

I think if you could cast heals like you could in oblivion that the resto line of spells would instantly become more useful. In the middle of a fight unequipping an item just to cast a spell is almost as bad as the magic system was in two worlds two. I only really use the healing spells after a fight and use potions during them. There should have been some hotkey toggle to let you cast while still holding your weapon and shield or two handed weapon. The system feels like it discourages melee players from using magic. everytime I am in a dungeon and want to cast candlelight I need to unequip my shield, cast and re-equip my shield and since the spell only last 60 seconds it gets annoying after a bit. It was alot better in oblivion to have a magic hotkey then tie magic to your attack keys like we have now.
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Robert
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 11:32 am

Healing is not exactly worthless. In case something happens and you accidentally run out of potions, healing is there to help

I personally haven't cared much about potions, but I do find them a bit overpowered in that you can drink as much as you want without any repercussions. A good amount of potions combined with quick fingers essentially turns someone invincible
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Sabrina Steige
 
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Post » Sat May 26, 2012 10:05 pm

potions are worthless cause I can use restoration magic at all times instead of having to visit a town.
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Angus Poole
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 3:13 am

Restoration healing should have a HoT (heal over time) version where you can just cast once, and it will heal you while you are free to do other things.
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Justin
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 10:54 am

Restoration is way more reliable, especially Fast Healing and the perk that doubles the spells effectiveness.
I run out of potions

What perk "doubles" healing effectiveness? +50% is not "double", it's half.

Restoration in this game is worthless. If you are running out of potions enough that it skews your perspective and makes Restoration actually look compelling...you really are doing it wrong.

The main thing that Restoration is egregiously lacking is a healing over time functionality. That is in every way possible better than the crappy "one shot super slow healing" method this game relies on. And no, standing still holding down the triggers/mouse while you heal does not count.
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Andrew Tarango
 
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Post » Sat May 26, 2012 8:37 pm

I think it's balanced ok. Why should something that weighs nothing, costs nothing be more powerful? It's like the people crying about destruction magic. It's like your the guy pressing the nuke button in the bunker, how much risk are you taking compared to the soldier on the front lines? And potions are expensive as hell too, and scare as hell. Until I got some nice armor I was always out of potions because I was healing up 300+ points of damage in one fight.
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Kelly Upshall
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 7:55 am

Restoration is a very much important part of my "Immortal Build" which involves maxing armor and magical resistance/absorption and zero-cost healing. It is actually the only build i have so far that survives a console spawn of 10 dragon priest + 20 death overlords surrounding you. No other build comes close to this kind of durability.
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Smokey
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 3:34 am

I agree with OP.
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Lillian Cawfield
 
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Post » Sat May 26, 2012 10:02 pm

The thing I find most amusing is pausing, eating 25 salmon steaks, 2 venison steaks, 50 apples and a few loaves of bread and then un-pausing... mid-battle snack.
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Lloyd Muldowney
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 12:09 am

I think it's balanced ok. Why should something that weighs nothing, costs nothing be more powerful? It's like the people crying about destruction magic. It's like your the guy pressing the nuke button in the bunker, how much risk are you taking compared to the soldier on the front lines? And potions are expensive as hell too, and scare as hell. Until I got some nice armor I was always out of potions because I was healing up 300+ points of damage in one fight.

Magicka is a cost, a much more important one in combat.

Also money becomes no object fairly quick, plus ingredients are easy to find, plus the game is flooded with potions already. And they weigh like .5 lbs. You can carry more potions than you'll probably ever need considering how many you'll find along the way clearing out dungeons.
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Sophh
 
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Post » Sat May 26, 2012 9:12 pm

With this logic everything is pointless except for invisibility.
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Rachel Cafferty
 
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Post » Sat May 26, 2012 8:53 pm

Frankly, what is the POINT of using healing spells during combat, which drains your magicka, and needs time to cast, if you can instead press "I" to open up inventory and pause the whole game, and then drink DOZENS of healing potions in an INSTANT?

1. It's completely free.
2. It means you don't have to carry potions which saves weight.
3. It levels up your Restoration allowing you to get the Recovery perk faster.
4. It levels you up which means better loot.
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Sunnii Bebiieh
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 9:51 am

I disagree, But then again I don't keep many potions with me.
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Yung Prince
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 7:18 am

1. It's completely free.
2. It means you don't have to carry potions which saves weight.
3. It levels up your Restoration allowing you to get the Recovery perk faster.
4. It levels you up which means better loot.

1. After level 20 or so you should be swimming in gold.
2. It would be something to think about if potions didn't have the best weight to gold ratio... but they do.
3. No point for recovery unless you want to go spell casting without enchanting???
4. Level scaling means any level gained through means that won't directly improve your killing abilities make the game harder.

Plenty of reasons to use restoration healing imo... up to level 15 or so. After that it just phases out pretty hard.
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Nick Swan
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 6:24 am

This is actually an ancient issue since RPG with an inventory system that pauses the game when opened exists (and it exists in all TES games). But it is even more glaring in Skyrim.

Frankly, what is the POINT of using healing spells during combat, which drains your magicka, and needs time to cast, if you can instead press "I" to open up inventory and pause the whole game, and then drink DOZENS of healing potions in an INSTANT?

And it's not that healing spells are much more powerful than potions, let's say Fast Healing, it only heals something like two bottles of minor healing pots, and it is sure NOT FAST (compared to instant potion drinking).

And it's also not that healing potions are rare and expensive. They are actually so many around like mead and ale. And pass level 20 they all can heal you at least 75 HP and if you're good at alchemy you can heal even more with custom pots.

So currently healing spells are more or less worthless during combat, because using potions is much more easy, safe, and isn't even remotely expensive. The only good time to use healing spells is out of combat, and then it's completely meaningless because you regenerate health out of combat.

Some may say you can make the game a little more "fair" by never open the inventory during fights, and use potions only by assigning them to a favourite and a hotkey and use them in real time only. Still the issue is here because you drink them INSTANTLY with each key pressing. The only way to play it "fair" is by restricting yourself from using pots during combat and use only healing spells, or play it like the NPC, only drink one or two when your health is really low and you force yourself to run away for a few seconds. BTW, if your magicka is low by casting spells, including, ironically, healing spells, the only way to recover magicka is drinking potions.

IMO, gamesas (or modders...) should have made potions and healing magic more balanced. Potions is an item which can be used universally among all classes, and many non-magic users must rely on them to heal themselves. On the other hand healing spells is a speciality for mages, priests and paladins alike, they should have an advantage at using it. However currently even mages and priests prefer to use healing pots because it's cheap, easy to use, and even more efficient than using their hard learned and practiced healing spells, which is ridiculous.

Hmm, use mana which I have infinite amounts of or the potion worth about 1,000 gold...well Im gonna go with being the badarse mofo I am and be able to take care of business almost every time without needing a "Heal break". Heal up after the fight kiddies, and if you need to heal use mana. Keep those pots for emergencies.
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Blessed DIVA
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 11:44 am

I find myself using restoration 75% of the time and potions about 25%, mainly because restoration is faster and I tend to run out of healing potions very fast.
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Judy Lynch
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 5:22 am

I find myself using restoration 75% of the time and potions about 25%, mainly because restoration is faster and I tend to run out of healing potions very fast.

Same thing here. The basic healing spell you have from the very beginning has been really good to me. I've obviously taken the perk to restoration that dual casting is more effective and even on level 45 with a BIG health bar, I can heal myself fully in just a matter of like... 5-10 seconds.

I only tend to use potions in those "This next hit will kill me" scenarios.. and tend to run low on em pretty fast, as you obviously can't carry around an infinite amount of potions.

So yeah, I think there's nothing wrong with healing spells and have found it really useful.
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Emma Copeland
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 11:38 am

Alchemy in TES games is always unbalanced both in terms of strength and as a gold mine. Each game (including Skyrim) I got alchemy to 100, saw how it unbalanced my game in terms of making me super rich and powerful, and then rerolled and never touched alchemy again in order to have a fun play through. I made threads before asking if Bethesda FINALLY balanced alchemy before Skyrims release, but the Devs always locked them. Seems they could have just answered: "No! Just as broken as before!"
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Shaylee Shaw
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 5:46 am

Alchemy in TES games is always unbalanced both in terms of strength and as a gold mine. Each game (including Skyrim) I got alchemy to 100, saw how it unbalanced my game in terms of making me super rich and powerful, and then rerolled and never touched alchemy again in order to have a fun play through. I made threads before asking if Bethesda FINALLY balanced alchemy before Skyrims release, but the Devs always locked them. Seems they could have just answered: "No! Just as broken as before!"

Alchemy is fine. The way you use it, may not be. My character didn't power level alchemy to 100, and doesn't make numerous potions to sell (and then waits 48 game hours to sell more and buy more reagents), and therefore the skill hasn't trivialized my game experience. I play a self-supplying adventurer, not a potion mass producer. :)

TES games give you a lot of freedom. More than many other games. How you deal with having so much choice is up to you. You can use alchemy to trivialize Skyrim, or you can use it to enhance your experience. It's really up to you. The same applies to smithing and enchanting, too.
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Ashley Tamen
 
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