I recently read this blog:

http://www.wikinomics.com/blog/index.php/2010/03/08/games-user-experience-and-retroactive-continuity-all-enabled-by-platforms/

Of course, being a huge TES fan I immediately wondered how other fans would react......so how would you react if Bethesda were to release a patch to Oblivion "adjusting" the ending.....?

Please note, this is not a discussion about lore per sae - there are more than enough of those on this forum, so please refrain from posting anything about how Oblivion breaks canon etc, otherwise the thread will just become hijacked

It wouldn't be canon, therefore it would be wrong. They would never do that. And your avatar creeps me the [censored] out.

How would it not be canon? If it's done by Bethesda, and its put into the game, it is canon. No if ands or buts. You don't have to like it, especially if its a retcon, but it is canon. It's the exact same thing they did with Fallout 3. Oh... you die...wait nope you didn't.

Maybe then Martin wouldn't steal all my thunder and I could hack out Dagon's ankles.

Retcon Oblivion's ending? There are unseen ramifications, which have yet to be revealed to us, just like with Morrowind.

I don't care either way, though. It's been done before, and it's actually lore correct to retcon. so yeah

I don't particularly like Oblivion's story, so what the hell.. retcon to your heart's content, Beth.
Seriously though, I'd be a little annoyed just because I don't really like retconning, but I wouldn't care too much so long as it was changed to something that made sense, worked well with the lore, etc..

I think the general idea with things like this is that the original ending would not be canon, being replaced by a new one.

But I can't say I'd approve of this. Now, Oblivion's ending might not have quite been how I'd like to see the story ended, but regardless, it's already happened, and it's already part of the Elder Scrolls world. I don't really like the idea of just retconning things where there really is no need to that much. Usually it's used to fix a really big screw up, but even though I have a few complaints with Oblivion, none of them are things that would require that, and besides, my real complaints aren't things that would be fixed simply by changing the ending. Besides, I've already finished Oblivion's main quest, and I don't want to have to go back and play through a story I finished several years ago just to get the new ending.

I appreciate your reply, but what we are doing here is roleplaying a scenario - y'know essentially like one does when playing Oblivion....or perhaps Morrowind would be a better example. So we naturally suspend disbelief....more or less. :shrug:

Look at it from this point of view (once again performing a little roleplay): lets say there were multiple endings like a TRUE roleplaying game. The way you played Oblivion may have meant that your ending was different from (say) my ending, because of the choices you made during the game.

HOWEVER.

The official ending isn't actually known until the next instalment (TES:V) comes out which confirms which "ending" was actually canon. Therefore Bethesda retrospectively (I think this is the more appropriate term(?)) "corrects" the ending (you experienced) to be the true one.

Just a thought.....anybody else....? :lightbulb:

P.S. It also creeps me out....

They had several ending to daggerfall what they did is created a dragon break to explain it saying that everything happend.

Seems pointless to me. If you're a good enough writer that your story for the next game warrants that much effort, I would think you're also good enough that you can easily write it so that it doesn't completely depend on the previous game ending a specific way. Likewise, if you're that determined to have a smooth story, something like this is just going to confuse the fanbase between the half who never replayed the game and saw the new ending. Just seems like a lot of effort for a dubious accomplishment.

I would explain it all away, just like they would. Like if the official ending to OB was that all the cities banded together in the fight with the daedra I'd want to say screw that. But there is still a loophole there, who said they all banded together at the same place, and why did it have to be all about me.

So..you all are basically saying that if Beth remaid Morrowind and completely changed the main quest around so it ends differently, that would be canon?
That doesn't even make sense, and defies the very definition of what makes something "canon" in the first place.
If they changed the ending of Oblivion, it wouldn't be canon, because it's already happened, it's already there, and it's already "lore".

It would be canon because Bethesda made it so. Canon is whatever the devs say is true and what isn't canon is what they say isn't true. If they changed the ending, the new ending would be canon and the old one would be wrong.

Just like Fallout 3's ending?

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it not canon.

Bethesda can change lore. Lore changed quite a bit from Arena and Daggerfall to Morrowind and Oblivion and those changes, are canon. Notice how in Morrowind, Vvardenfell isn't the same as it is in Arena. Lore has been changed before. If Bethesda makes it official, then it is official. If Bethesda changes lore, then those changes are official.

Your opinion verse my opinion. I view canon as original, what comes first, the way it was conceived. If you change that, whether you be a dev or not, that's not canon anymore.

In Arena, Vvardenfell was entirely an ashland.

So Morrowind isn't canon?

I can see how Morrowind could be seen as an Ashland in it's present form, so, yeah, that's canon. Simple interpretations of things aren't what i would consider breaking lore by making what some believe to be a ashland now a continent with people on it and some grazeland.
Completely altering a timeline of things that happened is breaking it, however.

Technically, it's your opinion versus the literal definition of canon. What's being talked about here is a retcon, changing the ending to fit a sequel or using future material to re-explain things in a different way. The entire Imperial race is a retcon. The Dragon Break is the king of retroactive continuity. Canon is the official materials for what the thing "is," and if the creator's own games in the series can't be taken as "official," how can anything be canon?

If they were to completely remake and change Morrowind, that would be a different thing. In that case you have two separate canons. It's something you see fairly frequently in media that extends over a series and/or over multiple authors, where the same basic setting can have multiple universes. It happens constantly in comics, with entire storylines and origins being rebooted over and over. Any of those canons can be "real," as long as you stick to the respective differences between them.

And..how can you immerse yourself in a world that keeps being changed by the devs? Kind of like the fanbase of WoW and the Warcraft series. Blizzard has changed so much with the introduction of Draenei the last xpac, and especially blood elves, and now the goblins are taking sides of the horde for Cataclysm. That's not canon, and the lore is completely trashed. You can't take that seriously, because it's not even concrete anymore.
That's my point. I really don't care if you agree with me or not. haha. :shrug:

Whether you agree with us or not, you can't change the definition of canon. Canon is what is official. What Bethesda changes is official. Therefore, the changes made by Bethesda are official. Also, Vvardenfell in Arena is completely different from Vvardenfell in Morrowind. The whole atmosphere of TES series has changed since Arena. If what you consider to be canon is an original concept(a false definition of canon), then Arena is the only canon game and TES series is canonly an uncreative, DnD clone. You can't change what is canon by making your own definition. Canon is not decided by fans, canon has an actual meaning and fans can't decide what is canon or not. Since most things in TES series have changed since Arena, how do you decide what is canon(you can't)? If you don't consider Arena to be canon, then you are opposing your own, false definition of canon. Also, a game world full of magic isn't stable. Look at the warp in the west or an event So, what do you consider to be canon and how do you decide what is canon and what isn't, even though you can't actually decide what is or isn't canon?

It's called personal opinion champ. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you are saying I'm wrong. Which is why you are in the wrong. I could care less what your opinion on the subject is honestly, but I surely wouldn't have the audacity to say your opinion is wrong.

You can't argue with a definition.

I doesn't matter what you consider canon, because what the devs say is canon is canon, regardless of whether you like it or not. You have the right to ignore that, but it doesn't make you any less wrong.

idk, viewing cannon as some big opinion soup...this might just be re-hashing points, but canon was defined before your personal opinion and your current opinion is not canonical with origonal canon or your canon. Opinion is good, but just consider it.

Edit: ohh cannon-balls, I messed up some grammar.
Edit2: And onion soup would taste sour by itself.

And I have no more puns.

Thanks for the [censored] spoiler?

We're in TES General. There's been worse spoilers than that.