[RELz] Return Of Shadows Chapter I : IV - Oblivion

» Wed May 25, 2011 3:04 pm

The mod can be activated at whatever time you wish. The story takes place from the dungeon of the main quest, aka characters will often comment about the King's murder (in the prison cell)

Well then do you have any tips for people who use alternate start mods and are tired of starting in the prison?

I guess I will deactivate until the main quest kicks off - I really don't want to play the main quest with this playthrough though.

» Thu May 26, 2011 1:59 am

Well then do you have any tips for people who use alternate start mods and are tired of starting in the prison?

I guess I will deactivate until the main quest kicks off - I really don't want to play the main quest with this play through though.

Why are you making this so complicated. ROS starts when you have +5infamy. That is ALL.

It doesn't matter what mods you have running, what type of start, if you ever see the intro sewer, or anything like that. There is no problem, it simply starts when you have 5 or more Infamy. For what it's worth, I have a alternative start mod. Again check your load order, short of that check your mod conflicts, and if that's not it then its probably not ROS. ROS has been downloaded like a couple thousand times and you and maybe one other are the only ones to report these errors (for him it was load order). If you copy your mod conflict report from MM or WB, you may be able to find assistance.

» Wed May 25, 2011 2:13 pm

Why are you making this so complicated. ROS starts when you have +5infamy. That is ALL.

Ok that is the main point - you stated that

The story takes place from the dungeon of the main quest

, so just trying to get clarification.

If you copy your mod conflict report from MM or WB, you may be able to find assistance.

Uhhh ... well scratching my head over this one - aren't those just going to give me conflict reports regarding loose files such as meshes and textures? That is not going to tell me why the game crashes on exit to main menu. The only replacer conflict being detected by BAIN is the music for main title.

With this new load order I've identified three mods that caused this - one was my fault for how I merged mods together, the other was a WAC mod that I fixed by removing errors, and this. Current load order (if that is what you mean by conflict report):

Spoiler

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Mod sorted by new BOSS.

Looking in Tes4edit I see that there are many conflicting mods mostly about cell and world space. So What I can do is try to load after better cities (the last mod to touch most of them) and report back findings.

» Thu May 26, 2011 1:03 am

I'm playing without music. In fact I delete the Music folder from mods before installing them. And I get no crashes on exit. May or may not be a connection...
BTW, are you using Fast Exit?

» Wed May 25, 2011 12:10 pm

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22410 to be precise.

But that only effects exiting the game and I've not heard at all that it effects exiting to main menu.

Just moved to after Better Cities so no more cell/world space conflict losers in this esp. Still crashes on exit to main menu.

I guess what I'm going to have to do is tear the load order apart and activate deactive till I find what it does not like to load with. Tomorrow though.

» Wed May 25, 2011 8:52 pm

Well, I never get any crashes when exiting to Main Menu either and I've had ROS in my load order during all my testing and (attempts at) playing.
So either it's another mod causing it or it's some weird mod conflict between ROS and another mod.

» Wed May 25, 2011 9:30 pm

*clarifies hopefully the last time* lol

Okay... storyline wise, the NPCS in this mod will talk as if the king has been killed in the sewers, thus thats where the lore picks up from ROS. so if you haven't actually went through taht it would be wierd for your character to hear about something that hasn't happened yet.

The mod itself is started instantly upon load, upon load at least 50npcs are released into the game to live a life. The Quest don't began until you've gathered enough infamy to be considered someone Namira would want (+5 infamy).

Even then only mesho shows up and comes after you. Once that happens the player is free to do whatever they want until they want to progress the ROS storyline, they still aren't considered evil or a member of the shadowknights.

~~~~

I'm guessing its your better cities mod. Most of the 50npcs that are released are done so with AI packages that use the default game's Xmarkers (go to points). If you're better cities mod erases these than it can conflict with many mods that depend on them. However you've already managed to load the game just fine so I'm not sure how that would hurt you.

Point is, It is highly unlikely that it is ROS. 1 : everyone would have the same problem, 2 : ROS doesn't run an always active script that would conflict with loading. I'll now take a further look into your LO and see what I can guess it is.

» Thu May 26, 2011 1:57 am

Again I suggest loading ROS as one of the last files to load in your load order.

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Oblivion_Mods_FAQ#Checking_Conflicts.2FOverlaps

» Wed May 25, 2011 9:17 pm

I'm guessing its your better cities mod. Most of the 50npcs that are released are done so with AI packages that use the default game's Xmarkers (go to points). If you're better cities mod erases these than it can conflict with many mods that depend on them. However you've already managed to load the game just fine so I'm not sure how that would hurt you.

I doubt Better Cities delete vanilla X-markers, as that would be a silly thing to do. Ismelda and Vorians are not silly and they are also concerned about compatibility, so the markers are probably just moved if touched at all.
I'm also using Better Cities and I've not noticed any problems with ROS.

» Wed May 25, 2011 7:26 pm

*takes petrus's cat * awesome ^.^ that pic made me smile and i'm depressed.

So I'll be releasing a few mods soon, an update to this one with books explaining the spells and fixing a few of them lol, A Fantasy Class mod that adds 20+ Classes (with perks) to the game and a few more.

But petrus, really, that picture is full of win.

» Thu May 26, 2011 12:10 am

I think I found what is causing it, but not certain at all as to why.

I've been trying to use http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1075687-relz-applers-passive-birthsigns/ and wanting to play an Atronach. Since Appler's mod is so persistent in throwing up a second menu to choose what kind of atronach it disrupts other 'start a new game' menus ... including the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23757 menu options.

What will happen is that it will leave the character stranded in the abyss of chargen if Appler's mod is loaded at the game start as with Start Choices. So since I want the ability to turn off the main quest I have been installing/loading Appler's after the chargen portion is over and to get it to start the best I can manage is to use the console to showracemenu or showbirthsignmenu to initialize Appler's mod and get the atronach powers going.

Doing this seems to change something somewhere ... as whether I have ROS installed from the beginning or have it installed later will result in a crash to desktop when trying to exit to main menu.

If do not use the console command then no crashes. Again this has only been the case with this mod and possibly one other.

[edi]t so then if I use ShowRaceMenu or ShowBirthsignMenu and do not change anything no crashes.

As I think on then doing this may be undoing some of the things in Start Choices.

I wish I could figure out a way to either start Appler's with other less extreme console commands or reinitialize Start Choices after it gets stalled when using Appler's. But all the start quest/ quest stage commands don't seem to do it. Those two are incompatible if the atronach is chosen.

» Wed May 25, 2011 2:02 pm

But petrus, really, that picture is full of win.

He he, thanks. When I found it i knew it was a winner.

BTW, I just created another test character (some problems with Realistic Leveling) and Mesho popped up when I slept. I guess that's why I should not use other mods that starts when you sleep, like Sword of the Aylieds and Tears of the Find. Add Markov's Manor to that list.

I noticed that if Mesho catches up with you while indoors you get rain indoors. Is that intentional? Or a conflict with All Natural which changes the flags of many of the interior cells Behave Like Exteriors? If not intentional, you may want to add the IsInInterior condition of Mesho's AI Package. I'm using an Alternate Start mod that starts my character with 3 infamy, so I changed the Infamy condition from 1 to 5 and also added the IsInInterior condition, so that Mesho don't start hunting for me right away.

And sorry for nagging about the start of the mod, but when you spend weeks preparing a new game you want all to work perfectly and not play 50 hours only to discover you did a small, but fatal mistake at the beginning of the game just because you misunderstood what you were supposed to do.
Better safe than sorry.

» Thu May 26, 2011 2:01 am

...so if you haven't actually went through taht it would be wierd for your character to hear about something that hasn't happened yet.

I think it could be roleplayed that the death of the Emperor happened about the same time your character spawned into the world. Somebody else was in that cell when Uriel Septim VII was led through it. And while your character is going about his/her business, that person is busy taking the amulet to Jauffre, assisting Martin, battling Mankor Camoran, etc.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification. I'm looking forward to playing this mod.

» Wed May 25, 2011 10:04 pm

I think it could be roleplayed that the death of the Emperor happened about the same time your character spawned into the world. Somebody else was in that cell when Uriel Septim VII was led through it. And while your character is going about his/her business, that person is busy taking the amulet to Jauffre, assisting Martin, battling Mankor Camoran, etc.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification. I'm looking forward to playing this mod.

Start Choices actually blocks all reference to the Emporer's death and he is still alive and dragon fires burn - until you either go to IC prison or save Kvatch (or you can disable both counts). You can turn both off and the emperor I guess never dies. It alos blocks all rumors and dialogue about it.

Not a huge point but one of the reason's I'd want to use Start Choices is that it prevents you being caste into the role of savior of the world so that you can explore you evil side i.e. this mod.

But Start Choices is now conflicting with other mods - I think I found a way around it, but it isn't elegant and you start with not even clothes.

» Wed May 25, 2011 10:30 pm

Start Choices actually blocks all reference to the Emporer's death and he is still alive and dragon fires burn - until you either go to IC prison or save Kvatch (or you can disable both counts). You can turn both off and the emperor I guess never dies. It alos blocks all rumors and dialogue about it.

Not a huge point but one of the reason's I'd want to use Start Choices is that it prevents you being caste into the role of savior of the world so that you can explore you evil side i.e. this mod.

You may want to try Cliffworm's mod instead, then. It's more limited than Start Choices, but it starts with the emperor dead, and you can start the MQ by picking up a letter. Not the most immersive solution, but at least it's effective and doesn't lead to so many conflicts.

» Wed May 25, 2011 10:39 pm

I'm leaning more towards http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19949 which has the emperor still alive, and Kvatch intact (depends on Kvatch Rebuilt.esm for that).

Then maybe start this mod after the main quest is started - though I do see the value in having a mod with the main quest ignored. So still contemplating.

Are there level recommendations for this mod? Is there a level where starting it would be no challenge?

Next question - is it necessary that the vanilla classes be messed up by this mod. I get the race issue (somewhat - though other mods have races that talk and are not playable), but is it necessary to remove a third of the vanilla classes? I'm thinking of compatibility with http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35300 which does reference the vanilla classes.

» Thu May 26, 2011 2:09 am

Next question - is it necessary that the vanilla classes be messed up by this mod. I get the race issue (somewhat - though other mods have races that talk and are not playable), but is it necessary to remove a third of the vanilla classes? I'm thinking of compatibility with http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35300 which does reference the vanilla classes.

Must be another mod messing up. ROS doesn't remove any classes, but it adds five classes. Only two of them are used by NPCs, though.

» Thu May 26, 2011 4:20 am

*loves the cat picture still, i come here to post, see the pic and I'm like "OMG I LOVE U"* *nods* you just cheered me up thank you. I really needed it.

» Wed May 25, 2011 4:08 pm

tc2r-

Still curious if there is a level recommendations with this mod as I asked above? Would really help me understand when is best to activate this.

Next - can you or Petrus just tell me what alternate start mods you are using with this?

I've tried three now and each results in crashing to desktop when trying to exit to the main menu. I thought it was the effect of either Appler's Birthsigns or Alt Magick system but I don't think it is just those ... it has more to do with funkiness at how the game is set at start or something.

Just tell me and I'll at least be able to know that what is being used works for you. As it is I've gone through the chargen about 40 times now with various mods active and deactive and in patterns of sequences. I need to isolate that it is not alt start mods I'm using.

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OK further testing reveals ...

That if I load (activate) this at the very game start and do chargen without once making a second choice (redoing race, face, hair or class or birthsign) then it will not crash on exit to main menu. If I do these things then the same save game thread I've been playing will crash on exit.

The issue of compatibility I'm having is alt start mods that have you check scrolls or go through menus to change these things (class, birthsign, race, or other) seem to cause issues. Then on top of that mods like Class Advantages, Applers Birthsigns, Alt magic system - at times interfere with or alter these normal aspects of chargen (regardless if in the tutorial dungeon or on a boat in anvil harbor or floating in the sky).

further I'm finding this to be the case even if I activate this hours (in game) after chargen is over. So the final test is have this loaded from the very beginning then do all chargen (and change no options) then see.

Hours at this ... literally hours.

And the results are success - with the knowledge of ever making a change in the birthsign, race, or class menus via console (and potentially via mods) will result in ctd on exit to desktop. Settled on alt start arrive by ship - emperor dead, but I don't have to get involved.

And yes Petrus was right - it was Alt magic system that caused the disappearance of more than half the vanilla classes.

» Wed May 25, 2011 6:13 pm

Me I'm using Cliffworm's Roleplaying Beginnings and Appler's Passive Birthsign and don't have any problems. Neither did I have any problems with CRB + Tejon's Birthsigns Expanded or Start Chocies + APB.
Only problem I've had was with Realistic Leveling complaining due to one of my skills going below 1 thanks the the background penalties from CBR.

» Wed May 25, 2011 9:36 pm

Again I think my issue had to do with re-accessing the menus (race, birthsign, class) which these mods give the ability to do. As long as not one was re-accessed I've been able to play and exit all I want.

If one of them was (even if prior to activating this mod) then I'd get the ctds.

Was each of these with the mod activated from the very beginning?

» Wed May 25, 2011 9:33 pm

Settled on alt start arrive by ship - emperor dead, but I don't have to get involved.

Yeah, I use that one. simple, efficient and doesn't try to hard at anything meaning less crashes.

Recommended levels? Any.

ROS was designed well (It's my baby so leave her alone). I recommend any level, the rewards, weapons, enemies, amount of enemies and difficulty scale up with you.) It's been tested from level 1 to 50. I recommend you don't use invisibility with it (invis imo is broken in this game or too freely available). And that you use the rewards you get in the mod, its the only way you'll get by without godmod.

» Wed May 25, 2011 9:45 pm

Again I think my issue had to do with re-accessing the menus (race, birthsign, class) which these mods give the ability to do. As long as not one was re-accessed I've been able to play and exit all I want.

If one of them was (even if prior to activating this mod) then I'd get the ctds.

Was each of these with the mod activated from the very beginning?

Yes.

» Wed May 25, 2011 5:32 pm

I'm wondering if you clean saved then tried to activate that you'd get the issues I had.

But I'm just about over that problem anyway, so if you don't then I understand.

Was not expecting a visitor the very first night I slept ... and like Petrus another mod visitor actually killed the guy (I think I was in the lower section of the abandoned house in Anvil and they both were on the upper floor) it was over before I got there and Mirage was already gabbing away. Is there a way to set this so that it does not activate until infamy 5 or 10 or something?

So The Pale Adventurer is this other mod.

» Thu May 26, 2011 5:10 am

Is there a way to set this so that it does not activate until infamy 5 or 10 or something?

Very easy indeed. Just change the Infamy value in his AI Package.