No side has any advantages over the other. Both sides are exactly the same except for names, faces, and attire.

Both sides fight for dominance in Skyrim.

Both sides revel in killing the other.

Both sides replace the jarls of enemy holds with whomever will obey them(even with criminals, like the Black-Briars and the Silver-Bloods)

Both sides resort to blackmail and thievery.(Riften & Markarth)

Both sides make accusations of crimes against the other.

Both sides will eventually lead to a supremacist movement or Ethnic cleansing in Skyrim(for the Empire, it's the Thalmor wanting High Elf supremacy. For the Stormcloaks, it's them wanting Nord supremacy)

Even the quests are all the same. Same goals, different locations.

And the Thalmor don't want either side to win. The continuing conflict keeps both sides weakened and vulnerable, but either side winning means both sides will be able to marshal their strength and would probably ally against the Thalmor later despite differences(the enemy of my enemy is my friend.)

So all the debating over which side is more legitimate than the other is completely pointless. Both sides have the same qualities and faults with a different face. Only difference is whether you prefer to wear leather or a bear's head.

It's a lore argument. The game portrays the two in an utterly terrible and shallow pile of [censored].

Apparently they had good intentions with the Civil War but cut a lot of content because of the release date. What can you do...
To call it a main feature of the game is a disgrace.

There is a difference though. The Empire's army is bigger. Apart from that and tactics not shown in game due to AI you're pretty much spot on.

Well the civil war is grey there is no "right" side its a simple war of ideals with the common citizens getting stuck in the middle. I prefer to be neutral personally.

I generally agree with you OP but knowing these forums there will be people who disagree with you.

Actually, the Legion fights for dominance, the Stormcloaks fight for freedom. And also Thongvor doesn't actually do any criminal acts, while Maven does and threatens to get the Dark Brotherhood to assassinate their leader (Maven has been sipping Skooma)

There are many big lore differences, but I won't be the first to open that inferno.

The Stormcloaks fight to put a loathsome dog like Ulfric on the throne while being a total tool for the Thalmor, while the Empire is trying desperately to keep the lands unified for the imminent next war.

They can say they fight for freedom all day long. When it gets down to it someone has to lead Skyrim and the winning party will do so. No one is ever truly free, someone must always be in charge and as long as this fact stands there will always be people to challenge said rule and fight for "freedom".

I agree with all of your points, but you're at least partly mixing gameplay and lore. A player may want to take a side for the story, rather than just the gameplay elements.

If the Stormcloaks win, they'll be free to worship Talos again. The Empire will definitely be weakened. It will likely also increase general hardship in Skyrim, because several NPCs make comments about the Empire providing food and supplies. This may just be short term, though.

If the Empire wins, it gives them more resources to fight the Thalmor, and helps them maintain stability, though with the Emperor's death, who knows?

Also, there are other issues, such as who would be better for Skyrim, Elisif or Ulfric? And who will be better 20 years from now?

Here we go.....

Has anyone in the civil war topics ever heard of the definition of insanity?

I listed lore reasons as well.

Lore:

Imperials want to maintain their Sovereignty over Skyrim. = Stormcloaks want to establish their Sovereigty over Skyrim

Imperials are allied with the Thalmor, who want to establish elven supremacy in Tamriel. = Stormcloaks want to establish Nord supremacy in Tamriel.(Even Galmar says Skyrim's independence is only the first step of their plans. They want to march on the Empire and Dominion next.)

Imperials show prejudice against the Nords by taking away their right to worship Talos and persecute anyone who does. = Stormcloaks show prejudice against all the other races by treating them like second class citizens.

Ummmm you realize you just posted this in the civil war discussion forum right? Every thing you said pretty accurate, but people will always feel compelled to defend their point view on the civil war. Why? Well because people think Ulfric is super neat and the empire is mans only hope.

I feel the same way. However the cold dark truth is: "Neutrality only helps the oppressor, never the oppressed" A side must be chosen to end the civil war unfortunately. It's basically choosing one of the two evils.

Tool for the Thalmor,yet it's the Empire who put them into Skyrim in the first place and is helping destory Mundus. Yeah..tool...

Only lore that is stated in game, which was very little. Also the Imperials aren't allied with the Thalmor. It's a peace treaty, not an alliance.

http://hdclarity.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Yoda-Flame-war-begun1.jpg

Ulfric's vision of a free Skyrim only counts if he is in charge.

Talk to Sybille Stentor. She helped to raise Torygg since he was a child and knew him inside and out. And states that he deeply respected Ulfric and probably would have separated from the Empire if he had asked him to do it. And even Elisif's favor quest proves that Torygg was a Talos worshipper in secret.

But Ulfric however believed Torygg was a milk-drinker and an imperial puppet who only cared about pleasing his woman.

Talk to Torygg in Sovngarde and then tell me he wasn't a milk-drinker.

Well my duty is stop a black dragon from eating/enslaving the world not help stop a war between nords and the empire. I don't even live in the empire or skyrim I live in morrowind!

If they wanna kill each other while the thalmor are dancing in the background? Be my guest. Not interested. If that helps the oppressor I don't care at the end of the day everyone is a bastard looking out for their own agenda the empire, ulfric and his stormcloaks and the thalmor I am tired of it my character is tired of being used for other peoples political games and battles.


As Boethiah pretty much said to my altmer live for myself and rely only on myself.

Vaas would not take kindly to the CW threads.

They give the Thalmor the right to be the Talos Police in Skyrim. They allow them to capture, torture, and kill anyone they want and General Tullius willingly turns a blind eye to it(case in point: His missive to Idolaf Battle-Born about Thorald Gray-Mane.)

The Empire's idea of saving itself is by maintaining peace with the Thalmor, which is more or less an alliance.

You don't listern very well.

I said Ulfric believed it. Not me.

And neither do you.
I said he IS a milk-drinker, I didn't say you said it.
And then I told you to go to Sovngarde and talk to him. He's a coward.

This. Oh and imagine the thalmor square dancing.....go ahead I laughed.

I'm not arguing lore or anything like that. It's just not an alliance. They're complying with the ridiculous Peace Treaty, not running over with arms wide open for a hug.

It seems like an alliance because they essentially put whatever they wanted in the treaty because they knew the empire needed peace. Whether they were bluffing about their strength or not is skewed, but the Empire couldn't negotiate anything.