my sentiments exactly... for me even Oblivion had way greater replay value and NOT only because of mods... heck even vanillas mage-guild questline was massive and entertaining as were the other guilds... i played this game for 5 entire years (never took it off the hard-drive) Skyrim will have to compete HARD with this,and it seems that it loses the race already... here i wiat for mods, i n Oblivion they weren t a necessity (for me), in Skyrim they are badly needed

Can we please get past this tired nonsense?

Skyrim is dumbed down from what? From Oblivion? You mean the Oblivion I played and loved on my XBox 360? Or perhaps you mean dumbed down from Morrowind, which I played and loved on my original XBox along with millions of other gamers? None of the "less intelligent" console players seemed to have trouble with the complexity of these titles.

I love my PC and play plenty of games on it. But sometimes, I like to see my game on my glorious 44" HDTV from the comfort of my couch.

By the way, the next time you feel that hostility towards console players well up inside you, consider this: Skyrim for the PC accounts so far for about 14% of total sales, the rest being for Xbox and PS3. If not for consoles, Bethesda may not have bothered making the game at all. Coming from a console player since 1978, You're welcome.

I found the review comprehensive, albeit biased towards complaint over measured illumination of the factors at play in the game.

It's hard to read something that is simply someone's opinion, and enjoy it when that opinion differs with your own. I found some of the skill reviews a bit weighted to the point of misinformation, but it seems that OP was expressing personal frustration with the game.

I also actually ENJOY the new dungeon design, and find it a bit pedantic to argue that they are too similar. A cave is a cave is a cave and a cave is going to look like a cave.

Overall I applaud the OP's thoroughness and his willingness to share, but I'm glad that this is not a published review, as I don't find it very honest on a few points.

PS- I would like to point out to NemesisLeon that calling console players "less intelligent" is not only a fallacy, but is against forum rules. It also serves to show the elementary capabilities of the poster itself.

ofcourse they're weak in comparison, it's called mage armor for a reason
you're a mage not a heavy armored warrior

Sadly it has alot to do with the consoles. Games which aim to release big titles on the consoles tend to simplify due to the much broader audience. This doesnt include all the Console gamers but most of the console users play Casually.

TES fans tend not to play their beloved games Casually and love spending their endless hours in them with ease.

Its not so much just Skyrim but most of the titles that turned console in the past years.

I agree with the OP, I have also played all of the TES games.

But oh my god.
I'm done with this forum, just look at some of the reply's here...

Jesus...See you guys at the Oblivion and Morrowind forums :thumbsup:

Agree completely with the OP.

This is not an TES game. Simple as that. It feels like a rushed consoled RPG ( much like DA2 ). Its a shame too what this game should have been. Graphically it is nice though.


/pc & ps3 gamer

I agree with pretty much everything OP, especially about the guilds which felt very rushed, the no ranks straight to leader system is just beyond stupid.

I have just read through the review, and have to say its a great write up by Faulgor.

For me Skyrim is still a great game that I am enjoying immensly.

Character progression, the removal of spells and spellmaking have to be called a disaster from a TES/RPG point of view though. I have little to no desire to re-role and build a character like I did in previous games. Personally I find myself wandering through the world thinking its superb, but could be so much better if.. well.. they had built upon what TES was all about rather than stripped away and dumbed down. It was a minor annoyance at first, but as I go on certain mechanics being removed are inexplicable and severely detracting from the experience.

Some of the quest lines are really good (loved thieves guild). But why are they not more interactive, player choice driven, different factions which feel differently to eachother. Its a great game, but a great TES game?

damn it. Incredibly good review. I agree on almost every point. The meat of Skyrim is the caves, which have improved dramatically over Oblivion. That's the only thing that still has the potential to surprise, positively.

Some great points, very well made. I don't agree with it all though. I think magic did take a step backward for Skyrim. I used to play a Ranger with a couple of magic schools. Now it's just Restoration I use, and as mentioned, being an Alchemist would be more efficient and versatile. The main losses are Cure Disease and Open Lock for me. I just don't find any draw to play a mage anymore.

Some skills surely need addressing, as will always be the case. I do miss attributes, the forgotten skills, and weapon sets. That said I do like many improvements. The ability to Smith is my favourite, but also the perks. There is character development, just different to previous games. I don't think the two should've been exclusive.

Overall I still love Skyrim, but as is always the case, I'll be eagerly awaiting mods to add a little mire complexity and really polish the game. Oblivion turned out amazingly after a few years if community input, and I can see the same happening for Skyrim.

Good review. You make a thorough case for your points and I especially can agree with some disappointment about the resolution of the civil war and main quest, which had promising foundations but seemed to drift as you got deeper into them. I would guess this is some of the sacrifice we make for having a huge, fleshed-out world, that individual quest lines are fairly basic.

I don't know what to do with all the "sigh, this isn't my TES anymore" comments. I came to the series with Oblivion and am ecstatic about a lot of the changes in Skyrim, and what I feel are deeper characters, more serious and nuanced writing (more in the setup than resolution of things, as mentioned above), the exponential improvement in level design and variety in the landscape. I find I can't go back to Morrowind or the older games because the gap is just too large. So, I guess I benefit from what feels like a loss to other people.

I've never played Morrowind, but I'd like it if someone explained to me how exactly that game was more complex than Skyrim. Can you enumerate the reasons why?

I'm a pc gamer, and I have to admit that console players get scape-goated. I think there's some truth in the simplification complaint, because the console demogtaphic is larger and more diverse which tempts developers to aim for everybody, which generally leads to LCD designs (though this is largely developer assumption and cynicism). So it's really the desire to sell as many units as possible, and the console audience provides the delivery mechanism. It's not fair for console players to get blamed for it.

Also, FWIW, pc skyrim is 14% of RETAIL sales, which puts the real number around 30%, maybe a little more.

Morrowind tried to be complex. But like the 2 that followed it the game can easily be broken through the games own mechanics. So if you could restrain yourself from abusing the dozens of exploits it was more complex because of things like dice roll combat system. You don't find useful potions everywhere or even filled gems. The level scaling isn't as protective of lower level players. It was also hard to find things, in part to shoddy directions for some quests and largely due to the fact that you didn't have a quest marker.

Because he PAID for the game, while the magazines ARE PAID for the critic.

morrowind:
Didn't have gps, npcs told you where to go, and you had to use landmarks to find your way, this was both an amazing feature and a defect
Didn't have a quest arrow to lead you to your objectives
Had a wider set of skills and magic, some of which were useful, some exploits, some pointless (just like skyrim, but with more choices)
Allowed character builds that are no longer possible, such as unarmored monks that specialized in hand to hand combat
Had more dialog, because it was text

...I could go on. It was definitely more complicated, but some people are happy that it's changed. It depends on how you play the game.

The x60 damage for sneak attacks comes from the double sneak attack damage enchantment, the Assassin's Blade perk, and from attacking with both daggers simultaneously during the sneak attack.

Say you're holding a dagger in one hand that does 22 damage and a dagger in the other hand that also does 22 damage, attacking with both during the sneak attack simultaneously to perform the scissor cut would mean you are doing 44 damage, which is multiplied by 30.

22 = damage of a single dagger

22*2 = damage of scissor cut

(22*2)*30 = 1320

22*60 = 1320

Clear indication that x60 damage sneak attacks are possible.

Excellent observation. Any TES game carries the burden of the excellent things its predecessors showed, therefore the ever-increasing criticism.

There are things I just cannot help but notice in many threads duyring these years: Daggerfall's character creation is the best; Morrowind's story and depths of personalities the best; Oblivion, err... I dont know if anything in O was the best (journal entries? hahaha), but so on. Slyrim's perk sys is unique. So how come we do not see one TES game summing the best of each?

What gets me most is how every chapter races seem to undergo a massive revamp...

Maybe my style of play dovetails with the game, but playing as a magic user has been pretty satisfying so far, and I don't feel underpowered at all. This is with a mid-30s character so things may change.

The main problem I have with magic is the UI, specifically because I'm lefthanded and use the numpad keys for movement. The quick keys are a long way from either hand and I often find myself in precarious situations trying to equip and cast Soul Trap (which needs a more visible hit indicator on mobs) and then change back to DPS for the kill. Grand-level mobs are particularly dangerous, but even a couple of Ice Wolves can be cause trouble if I try to Soul Trap them both.

The other big problem is as the OP says; there are a lot of spells in various schools that are worthless because they don't scale.

Based on comments I've read, I'm going to assume that magic offers a much lower DPS than weapons at maximum levels, especially since enchantments and poisons can be added to weapon DPS, while magic simply gets a reduction in mana cost. So it may be underpowered relative to the melee/archer playstyle, but in game it is easily keeping up with the scaled mobs. (Again, I'm not at the highest level and could be in for a nasty surprise later.)

As far as the schools go:

Destruction

THE school to specialize in as a mage. The stagger perk and DPS perks are required. I'd like to see pure magic damage, a la magic missile. Acid damage would also be very nice.

Alteration

This school could have been so much more useful with some stealth and trap oriented spells. Darkness! Trip/stagger! Blinding light (short duration, obviously.) Also, temporary weight reduction as a castable spell.

Illusion

When you can pull off the frenzy type spells it is extremely fun; however, they become completely useless too soon. The spells should offer a % chance to frenzy based on level, with guaranteed success for x level and lower creatures, and guaranteed failure for y level and higher creatures. Some creatures immune.

Muffle was useful early on and is well placed in the skill hierarchy. Invisibility is about the only other useful spell in this school at higher levels.

THANK YOU FOR DROPPING CAMOUFLAGE. That was one of the most stupidly overpowered spells I've ever seen.

Restoration

The OP nailed it.

Conjuration

Conjuration is useful but IMHO Destruction is more critical--that's likely a difference in playstyle, because if I had to rely on summons for DPS I'd be bored to tears. Summons are a means for me of focusing enemy damage on someone other than me and that's about it, and it's generally easier to use the Throw Voice shout to congregate enemies because of its range. I've never felt the need to level Conjuration past apprentice.

Enchanting

I'm not sure about this yet. The 2x effect per item perk is very nice, but until I reach that point it looks like the only use for Enchanting is creating things to level up the skill. Mercheants are selling ridiculous items that I cannot hope to match until I completely max the skill out, and this actually works as a disincentive for leveling the skill as it's useless filler until level 100.

Thank you so much for that no really no sarcasm. I feel so insulted when my intelligence is questioned simply for owning the console version.
Been playing console since Oblivion as upgrading my PC every year has become unaffordable since I no longer have a steady income and secondly my physical handicaps simply do not allow me to use a keyboard and mouse for long periods. A controller and being able to lay down on a couch is much easier for me. I might be crippled in body but not in mind and neither are other console owners. Well some might but jesus....plenty of PC gamers who also have an IQ count below their own shoe size.

As for the OP I do not agree on all accounts personally but I do sympathize. Your post is well written, thought through and simply a hundred times better than most negative reviews which could be summed up as "OMG I'm so hating this game. Rage. Grumble. This svcks."

I'm also a hardcoe MW player and though I started with the infamous buggerfall(funny how people forget how terrible the bugs were in that game) MW was for me THE TES game.
Skyrim to me is finally a spiritual successor. Yes it has it's flaws but it beats Oblivion IMO which I disliked. It improves upon Oblivion in many ways yet it also leaves behind some of the good things.

It's crazy that people compare critique to hating. Even though I had lots of issues with Oblivion I still thoroughly enjoyed playing it. Just not as much as MW and it's not like MW didn't have it's own flaws.
I was called a MW really devoted fan, hater you name it. I understand how you must feel about some posts from idiots in here. Ignore rinse repeat. Though I do not agree with everything you make some good points that need to be addressed.

I don't know the limitations of where keybinds can be placed on the PC version, but I assume they allow the entire keyboard...

So, why not switch from ( WASD ) to ( PL:" )? Then you could rebind everything else around that. Seems far easier than using arrow keys.

console players cant be that stupid if justin bieber supports them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msi9PkQh7vk

damn it just found out he's pro pc...the title is missleading...now i feel bad...

First off, let me begin by saying how awesome to see someone else who has played as much as I have. I have just over 210 hours logged as of two days.

Having said that, and with the experience I have in playing that long, I can agree with pretty much everything that you said. My experiences with some of the skills have been different from your own, but I agree 100% with questline reviews.

As for everyone who is tearing apart the skills reviews, the guy has obviously played the game, and here he is basing those reviews off of his own experience with the skills. Quit tearing apart for stating his personal review.

I use the numpad, not arrow keys, but you're right. Eventually I need to go with IJKL (bump on that J key is helpful) but it's a tough transition to train my subconscious after so many years of using the numpad. It's still a bit of a reach since the quick keys only go up to 8--using 9 and 0 would be preferable. Hopefully that's moddable.