This should be printed and used as a template for the next patch.

Thanks for stating all of this. I agree 100%. Bethesda did some things right, unfortunately they killed even more. I wanted to play a mage (never did in Oblivion), but after having a bit of insight with my first character (assassin) in the magic system, I didn't have the feeling this really could be fun....

sounds a bit like... thank you but no thank you

It's a very thorough and informative review. Thanks for doing it.

Also, because someone has to say it:
-Skyrim is dumbed-down for a console audience
-Consoles' far lower piracy makes them more desirable to sell on
-Consoles are played by less intelligent people in general
-Money is paramount. Dumb-down the game to earn money on console. Dumbing-down appeals to the audience more.


No one ever mentions the money. This isn't scientific research into the best gameplay, it's a business. Money is more important than any gameplay concerns people may have. You want to say it's not? It takes money to make games. Here's your choice: money-fueled game or no game. Notice that the "better gameplay choice" has been replaced with "no game". Find a way for developers to overcome this and you'll have your game back.

i hope you are aware youre just about to start the third world war lol

You have some good and interesting points.

Just wanted to say that Sky has a new thing called Radiant Story/line.

What that means is, the first time you may get quest A and be sent to dungeon B. But, when you come back later, you may get quest A and be sent to dungeon C, or you may get B and C, respectively.

The game is supposed to look at where you've been/what you've done, and make changes accordingly.

If someone else already posted this, sorry for the duplication but I didn't have time to read all the posts.

Well in this direction its either gonna be the Console generation or the old TES fans. Skyrim is a big step back in terms of depth which will eventually if the next game turned out even more bland the death of the old faithfull fans.

I find it quite sad that the game companies in todays world think we cant do anything but download apps on our iphones.

I r baboon. I fling dung and sniff my fingers lol

Most employees log in invisibly, only we mods can see them. I will tell that every time I come on here during the day, and most evenings, I see Bethesda Employees reading the boards.

Actually not the smartest thing I ever wrote!
They are indeed different and comparing them is wrong.

Yes, hence my stating that any dissatisfaction on your part is likely due to personal preference and nitpicking. I understand that perfectly, because I have my own complaints, but by and large, I am satisfied with Skyrim and much as I'd like to say "but I'd rather see..." I just simply accept it for what it is. Each new entry has been an evolution from the previous.



You're really off-base, there. I don't think you're reading the same thing I typed, and I can only guess that you're lashing out because I'm not someone who immediately agreed with it.

I pointed out that he's gotten over 200 hours of time out of Skyrim thus far. He obviously has found some enjoyment overall, and that's my point. As much as people want to complain about things in the game, I notice they're still claiming how many hours they've racked up in playing the game. It'd be a different story if it was someone who said he outright hated the game, thought it was crap, and barely put any time into playing it.

You wouldn't pound nails into your dike for 200 hours before deciding you don't like it, would you?

really?........really? :facepalm: what in sithis's name do you call vsions maverique or thunderjunk then!? :swear:

I'll take this reply as my own except for the 125 hours bit. I honestly don't know how long I've played but I've beaten the Companions and the Dark Brotherhood. And about a quarter of the main quest. Collage of Winterhold is next!

Your review perfectly explains what I'm thinking of Skyrim thus far. Thank you for taking the time to share it. I am extremely annoyed that Bethesda didn't take the feedback from Oblivion into consideration when making Skyrim. Also I hope Elsweyr is next. I'm only playing until that game comes out. Once I play Elsweyr I'm done with Elder Scrolls and Bethesda.

Seems like the game is ripe for modders with the imagination to flesh out the areas you feel are lacking. Well written review, btw.

your countering your argument with the same dumb argument
so what, he got 200 hours of enjoyment (assuming that he enjoyed all the 200 hours) does that mean that
- he is not entitled to an opinion review?
- he has nothing to criticize upon the game?
- the game is perfect in every aspect and cannot be improved?
- there cannot be anything learned for futures games?

the one thing has nothing to do with the other, you can live in a year-long relationship that is working and still wish certain things were different or better and therefore try working on them to make the overall experience even more pleasurable

this is especially important for further games within the universe

I spend roughly 150 hours in Skyrim so far and I must agree with most points in this thread.

I′m not really far in the Main Storyline, I finished the Thieves and Companion Quest and am mostly doing
quests, Town by Town. So when looking at the Skyrim Map, there is still a lot to do and explore. Really a lot.
But I must say, having done maybe 1/4 of what is out there I allready have everything I need. I have a Deadric Armor
with nearly 800 of overall armor rating. I have the best sword one can imagine and I don′t know where to spend my money on.
Don′t get me wrong. I crafted the Deadric Armor when I was level 47 while I could have crafted it way earlier.

But slowly I′m loosing motivation because there is nothing left to win ! I never bought a single lockpick or potion. I didn′t even
craft any potions because you get so much just from looting. If there weren′t houses and trainer you could totally remove money from the game
because you don′t need it.

So my opinion on what should change to balance the game. (Well maybe more realistic for the next ES game )

1. Give us someting we can spend the tons of money on we get ingame. For example: really expensive furniture for like 100k gold
or weapons or a special armor that gives some motivation to go on.

2. Less loot: With the current amount of loot, alchemy or spending money on potions, lockpicks etc. is pointless.

3. Remove Weapon refinement and add refined weapons as boss loot instead. It′s stupid that one could theoretically craft the best
imaginable weapon with level 20. The best weapon and armor should drop from a boss and not beeing crafted.

4. Connect the ability to Craft more advanced weapons to the overall level. Deadric Weapons/Armor should be available once you reach lvl. 50
and not earlier.

5. Remove Trainers completely. Yeah sorry, but I think leveling in Skyrim is just to fast, anyway. I mean I haven′t used many Trainers
but still I got pretty much everything imaginable rearding weapons and armor while I still have so much to do in skyrim.

6. A little less dungeons but a little more diversity especially regarding boss fights. They are to easy and not challenging at all (from what I have seen so far).

7. Maybe vary the lighting in dungeons a bit. This would allready help to make dungeons feel more unique. 90% of the dungeons I have seen have this same
blue/green lighting. I′m still waiting for at least on redish dungeon like we had in Oblivion.

Anyway. After all it′s still the best RPG I played since Morrowind and I played a lot but I feel my motivation is dropping and I′m doing most of the things just to get it done
and not because I have fun doing it.

There's a good amount of misinformation in this review but some good points as well. This review just proves that people who were in love with old mechanics tend to be just as biased and reactionary as people who blindly love everything about the game.

I mainly agree that mage scaling is lackluster and the melee/armor perk-trees limit diverse melee gameplay by being too standard and similar. There really is no option for "agile" melee fighting; you either need to aim for the highest armor/hp possible or sneak around so you don't have to actually engage toe to toe at all.

One thing in general I need to add.

There are around 1000% more gamers, atleast, today, then when Daggerfall was released.
Back then, it was ok to do hardcoe games for a certain niche.
Today, it is driven by the market and you are able to earn money on it.

Dont forget that game making is business first of all.
And if you can make a car that will sell to 10 people that will be extremly happy, or sell 1000 cars for the same price, and make people happy.
What would you choose?

Bethesda have managed something great in Skyrim by making people outside of the inner cirkle interested in their game, its lore and overall inteo role playing games.

Nothing sais that once we have been hooked, they cant reverse and add in some hardcoe elements.

Just like you do in Sales, you hook them, then tag them up with the real deals:-)

Skyrim is a fantastic pieace of work in every aspect. The perks are great, compared to having just 1-100 in a skill which feels utterly pointless.

There is nothing in Skyrim that Daggerfall or Morrowind did better, but possibly some story elements.
But people talk about dialogue.
Its alot easier to have long and intricate written dialogues then voice acted ones.
Which do you honestly prefer?

Do you sit there and read an A4 of wall of text from an NPC, or do you prefer to listen to an npc for 20 seconds saying the same thing in 5 sentences.
I sure as heck prefers to listen.

And last but not least: You dont spend over 200 hours in a game, around 15 days after release, unless its above fantastic:-)

Interesting. We'll see if this scrutiny materialises in the form of a balancing patch at some point...

Wow, you must be angry to read that much into what I said. I'll try this one more time, and I'll try to stick to smaller words while speaking as clearly and plainly as I can, okay? You ready?

I was pointing out that all I needed to know was that he got his enjoyment. I've seen more than enough threads that nitpick at all the same points, and while he expressed his take on them at length, I did not feel the need to read the same points I've read across numerous threads. I agree with some of the points he likely had made, because like I said, there have been a large number of threads already pointing out in bits and pieces what he put all in one post.

Where did I qualify his review? Where did I suggest that his contribution was invalid? Where did I say he has no right to criticize something he has experienced? Where did I say that the game is perfect and does not need improvement?

Please, really, show me where it was that I said any of those things.

Stop being so damned angry that I'm not making a "me too!" post. You realize you're trying to argue with me for not agreeing with an opinion? I wonder if the irony is lost on you.

FYI, there are finishing moves for 'unarmed'. :3

Otherwise, a good review!

Very well said, OP. It's like you read my mind.

I rather like this review, I can't really comment on Magic since I haven't really bothered, but I agree that while I approve of Beth trying something new with Character stat/skill systems, I don't particularly like the Outcome, more so because of how it's set up now, It's not so free form, this was one of the things that got me into Morrowind, how many options and choices I had for different things, even if some of them were Redundant, knowing they were all there and I could pick and choose was fantastic.

NPCs somehow have even less depth this time around than Oblivion, and I have no idea why, Overall Oblivion was an extreme Let down, Skyrim's beginning is truly amazing but as you say, it stops there, the lack of lore and overall options and outcomes in quests has been something I continually find annoying, let alone the fact the Main quest has tried to Shove me both into the Mages College and the Thieves Guild at points with automatically putting the quests into my Journal and starting them.

The factions in Morrowind were not only numerous, but the amount of quests each faction had was staggering and how it all helped towards your rising through the ranks and becoming an important figure in said faction, some factions didn't have too much of a plot but most of them had an actual story to tell and it was generally always satisfying when you became the Grandmaster of the Fighter's guild or House Hlaalu or the Imperial Legion etc.
I too noticed the problem in the Companions, Why are there only werewolves in the Companions? Solstheim in Bloodmoon had Wild Werewolf encounters everywhere, and they were all pretty damn scary too since many of the Werewolves were extremely high level by default.

Another thing I'd like to point out that wasn't really touched on too much, is the fact Artifacts are ridiculously weak these days, that goes into the whole "There's no valuable loot" thing, in Morrowind the Artifacts were sometimes nearly OP but they were always special and Interesting and generally hard to get... but they were WORTH getting.


Overall Skyrim IS indeed a BIG Step up from Oblivion, but it is equally a step down in some aspects.
I just can't help but feel like Beth might be forgetting or purposely abandoning some of the "traits" that made older ES games so fantastic.

The step back in depth has nothing to do with consoles, don't be ridiculous. The step back in depth comes from bad writing and a lack of any meaningful decisions in the game. It's the mentality that Bethesda had that everyone should be able do everything in one playthrough which removes any consequence to anything. It's the mentality of being railroaded into quests and having limited ways of completing them. FO3 and FO:NV show Bethesda can do this (with Obsidian's help apparently) they just chose not to.

Do you know when those happen? Because I never experienced them with my "monk".