Right...CTD outside Riverwood on the path to the Guardian St : V

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:30 am

It appears to be a MOD related problem. I crash (randomly, seems to be 1 out of 2 or 3 times) right next to the waterfall (game locks up, no error). With no mods active it doesn't do that.

I found one source of the problem, being Real Wildlife...with that active, it was 100% of the time. Now its about one out of three times it crashes, if a single mod is active. I removed ALL Real Wildlife files.

However, it doesn't matter what mod is active...I can randomly select a single mod (everything else inactive) and the game crashes at that same spot. And it seems random in that area. It doesn't matter if it is just a clothing mod, or a companion mod or a graphics mod...it crashes in that exact spot. I deactivate that mod, and repeated attempts, and no crashing. Even if a clothing mod is active (one), it still crashes at that spot, and deactive, it stops...so I don't understand.

I tried a complete reinstall (twice) and same problem. On a 100% clean save.

Here is my mod list. I added notes to the more major mods and what would make "sense" to cause crashing.

Spoiler

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
CLARALUX - More and Brighter Lights.esm (crashes with it on or off, new addition to my mod list)
Imp's More Complex Needs.esm
SkyMoMod.esm (crashes with it on or off)
AOM.esm
HBE.esm
ApaachiHair.esm (1.2)
ExtendedColors.esm
SoS - The Dungeons.esm (Esmified file, crashes with it on or off)
SoS - The Wilds.esm (Esmified file, crashes with it on or off)
SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators (Esmified file, crashes with it on or off, new addition to my mod list)
AsharaDimonizedDress.esm (CBBE version, new addition to my mod list)
AOM.esp
SkyMoMod_lists.esp (crashes with it on or off)
Amiella Outfit.esp (same all the way to UNP, new additions to my mod list)
Al3dHotDress1_1.esp
FS_EveningStar.esp
Remodeled Armor.esp
Temptressdressv1.esp
UNP Simply Clothes.esp
DeadlyDragons.esp (crashes with it on or off, newly updated)
DeadlyDragonsSpells.esp (crashes with it on or off, newly updated)
DeadlyDragonsArmory.esp (crashes with it on or off, newly updated)
HBE_Vendors_Components_Rarer.esp (crashes with it on or off, newly updated, same with the next HBE.esps)
HBE_Loot.esp
HBE_Vendors_WeaponsArmors_NoRare.esp
HBE_DelayedPotions.esp
HBE_BarterRatio63.esp
HBE_Vendors_SoulGems_NoFilled.esp
HBE_SlowLeveling050.esp
HBE_Smithing_Schematics_NoRare.esp
HBE_Smithing.esp
magicmoonsp.esp (crashes with it on or off, new addition to my mod list)
Skyrim bigger trees.esp (crashes with it on or off, new addition to my mod list)
Riften Bigger Trees.esp (crashes with it on or off, new addition to my mod list)
Chesko_Frostfall.esp (this mod has never caused problems for me)
WATER.esp (crashes with on or off)
Path of Shadows.esp (crashes with it on or off)
ASX_Spells.esp (crashes with it on or off)
ASX_Potions.esp (crashes with it on or off)
Pinups2.esp (crashes with it on or off, same with the next two)
Pinups3.esp
Pinups.esp
Companion_Ari.esp (crashes with it on or off, same with the next two)
Companion_Ria.esp
Companion_Sooji.esp
modteacher2.esp (crashes with it on or off, companion mod, new addition to my mod list)
UFO - Ultimate Follower Overhaul.esp (crashes with it on or off, makes no difference, new addition to my mod list)
Live Another Life.esp (never had any problems with this mod, not the cause)
IMCN - Overrides.esp (imp's improved needs module, crashes on or off, never had any problems with this mod)
Extended Colors - Selection.esp (new addition to my mod list)

I also use a Bashed Patch, but it isn't currently active. Since I'm trying to figure out what is causing this weird problem, where if only one and any mod is active, it crashes at that spot. If it matters, the more mods active, the more likely it crashes at that spot. However, again, Real Wildlife was the cause of it being 100% of the time.

Started happening recently, just 2 days ago. I barely changed what mods I have, almost all of them are what I've been using for ages. And I deactivate all the new ones, and it still crashes. Even after 2 reinstalls. And it crashes at that exact spot, even if I don't include "new additions" to my installs.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:34 pm

It also seems to be limited to that particular spot. And actually, I've had a problem with that one little spot for ages...now that I think of it. Before I turned Sounds of Skyrim esps into esm files, it crashed there too. And that was a month ago. Then it went away (I think, don't remember crashing there for a while), and has "recently" returned.

I can make it all the way to whiterun and all around, even to Windhelm and Solitude (just running/walking) with no crashes. It is just that one tinsy little spot.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:43 pm

I imagine you regenerated your ini files and fully wiped every reference to Skyrim from your computer including the registry? Did you restart after each uninstall before reinstalling?

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:40 pm

yeah, whole new ini files, and used ccleaner to remove old references.

Seems to be a common problem in this particular area. From what I read on comments on Real Wildlife and a couple other mods. People commented that any mod they had (even if it isn't active), that edited the area in or around Riverwood, tended to increase crashes by a lot...in/around only Riverwood. But everywhere else is fine for them. And quite a lot of people comment on crashing in the spot I crash at.

Maybe it effects a few people or something, or certain textures/meshes/strings cause the problem. Or just certain mods installed. Like I said, I've had this problem for ages...tends to go away and come back again, I guess.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:42 pm

I've noticed that random encounters can cause crashes for me. Like earlier today i used the alternate start mod to start from Windhelm, and a Thalmor patrol spawned near the wolves on the road to the mill. Everytime i approached them the game crashed. Starting over and doing all the same things, except that the patrol didn't spawn there, and everything worked fine. There is an random encounter spot near the guardian stones, maybe that is causing your crashes?

Also, with both Fallout and Oblivion i've had assured crashes when approaching certain areas, but waiting for them to respawn has fixed those. A bad spawn in the area or something, i guess.

I've had crashes there too, but not lately. I did remove SoS and Real Wildlife since i suspected them to cause some crashes, and the permanent ones seem to have vanished. I have also installed everything with BAIN, so uninstalling a mod removes every file assosiated with it from the data folder, so the won't be any trash left by them. Except in the saves of course, no way to clean those yet /shrug.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shrug:' />

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:23 am

Ah...random encounters. That could be it, as it is one of my newer mods. It isn't currently active, but I'll remove all the files in it, as it could be what is causing the problem.

Have any experience with Occupy Skyrim? Outside of Skyrim Monster Mod and SkyTEST (which doesn't really increase amount of animals, but does alter behavior)...it would be nice to have an additional mod that made random spawns. I did use Occupy Skyrim before I used random encounters, but don't recall if I still got crashes at that waterfall or not...I know it went away for a while. And I never had problems elsewhere when using Occupy Skyrim. But, my memory can be rather bad sometimes /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tongue:' />

And yeah...I should have used BAIN. But ah well, kind of late now. That would have been a lot better to start with. Well, I'll make a mental note for next time.

(edit)

Mods that aren't listed, as they aren't active...

Natural Skyrim Rain
Dimmed Torches Brighter
Bard Sounds Malukah
Enhanced Blood Textures
Deus Mons (adds a huge castle)
The Asteria (adds a huge flying ship, could be a reason, as it is right near Riverwood, on the lake)
Better dynamic snow
Better quest objectives

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:53 am

I'm getting crash I think in about the same area you are. I get my crash as I'm leaving Riverwood (heading out on the road towards Whiterun). My crash always comes when I've just about crossed the stone/rock bridge. and it only seems to happen if I approach that area by way of that bridge. If I skirt around that spot across the water or by another land route and avoid the bridge, the crash does not happen. But if I cross that bridge, I get a crash every single time.

I'm only running two mods that should change any spawning from vanilla and those two would be ASIS and Mighty Dragons 3.

I am running Sound of Skyrim: the Wilds and The Sounds of Nature: Water.

I've not been able to track down what causes it exactly.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:02 pm

The road opposite of that is my problem, that road is fine on my end.

You have the updated SoS+the optional esmified files with that, correct? Otherwise it causes crashes if you just use the regular .esps. In fact, it seems Esmifing files fixes quite a few mods (well two that I've encountered), as SkyTEST crashed until I esmified it. It actually sounds like it might be the area with sounds from that one tree that has birds in it (that goes off every time you pass by)...maybe a mod changed it? Or a coincidence.

I use sounds of nature: water, and that is fine. Never had any problems with it, as far as I'm aware. Though, I wonder...it is just sound files (no esp), but SoS used to crash too and that was just sound files...

I do use it along with a thunder sound mod, and never had any apparent problems. I haven't used ASIS or Mighty Dragon 3 though.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:12 pm

Yup. That's the tree. And the funny thing is, I can get close enough to the tree to see the birds take off, which makes me wonder why it does not crash... if the sound is set to play when the birds fly away... if it even IS the sound that causes the crash.

And no, I skipped the esmified version of the mod as I read somewhere that just esmifiing esp's was a bad thing. Are you running the esmified version? And if so, have you encountered any issues with it?

And yes, I think that sounds of nature: water IS just a sound file replacement and does not contain an esp.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:57 am

FWIW, I use SOS and have NOT esmified and have no trouble with the area you guys are talking about.

Not sure if anyone is aware, but flipping the ESP to an ESM by itself just renders ALL of its edits worthless so the mod isn't actually functional when you do that.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:10 pm

Well, the crash may be related to something else entirely. I never said the crash was a result of using SOS, that was just me entertaining a thought of one thing that MIGHT be causing the crash. If it's not crashing for you, then it's probably NOT SOS. But I sure do wish I could find out what IS causing the crash. /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

And what do you mean by what you say about switching an esp to an esm? Are you saying that we SHOULDN'T use the esm version? Just want to make sure I'm using the right version with the least amount of troubles. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:07 pm

Changing a mod into an ESM without doing anything more than switching the flag is useless. Every edit the mod makes will cease to function. The only way around that is to either use the CK's version control system (which is a pain to set up) or to use dodgy hacks from Fallout utilities to generate an ONAM list for the mod. Neither of which is something an average user should be doing.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:10 pm

Esmifing sounds of skyrim made the random crashes go away (for me anyway), and all the sounds still play properly. I haven't fully tested it with SkyTEST though, been more focused on why this one small spot causes crashes.

But SoS isn't what is causing this crash in this one particular spot (and if I go around it, I don't get any crashes at all)...but it isn't that.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:20 pm

Real Wildlife became the cause of CTDs at that spot for me. Originally it ran fine, but then I had to deactivate it. My game works fine without it (well, as fine as it ever has, anyway).

As Arthmoor says, you should not change ESP to ESM and run a game. The only reason to do that would be to make an ESP from an ESP (where you ESMify the ESP temporarily and then change it back after creating the ESP that is dependent on it). However, that was for games prior to Skyrim, and doing this for Skyrim ESPs may create other problems.

Sounds of Skyrim is fine as ESPs. However, it is true that audio files CAN cause CTDs erratically, probably due to system processing variations. This is one reason why music mods like Sky Radio work much better as XWM. However, other audio files used by the game are WAV (such as ambient sounds like SoS). We just have to be aware (and accept) that adding additional processing may create stability issues.

Use ASIS for increased spawns and Automatic Variants for increased variety of textures.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:55 am

So we should use the esp version of SOS then and not the one that is really an esm?

Sorry for hi-jacking your thread Vendayn. I didn't intend for that to happen. /frown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:53 pm

Nah, I'm always willing to learn about mods /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />

I personally haven't had any problems with esmifying SoS, maybe I'm lucky or since it is a sound mod, it is different. In any case, it runs a lot better for me and still works like it should...guess everyone's take on it is different.

I guess if I start noticing problems with it, I'll get the esp again. Till then, it works better and works /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' /> but yeah, maybe not for everyone to do.

Also, I haven't used ASIS, I did try PISE for a bit, which was nice. How does it compare with HBE? (hardcoe and Balanced Experience? which is what I'm trying out now)

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:47 pm

More likely to be placebo effect actually. It's been confirmed plenty of times that switching an ESP to an ESM results in all edits made by that ESM becoming worthless. Only after having ONAM records generated would it fix itself.

This isn't variable based on the type of edits either, and it's one reason why this whole "make it an ESM, solve all your troubles" thing people have gotten themselves into is doing more lasting harm than good.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:36 am

I'm also baffled by what Arthmoor is saying, I use esmifyied versions of SoS and I get all the sounds. The esp causes random + consistent crashes for me however.

Hm.. got me thinking though. If Arthmoor says that ESMs won't have any effect on the game world yet many esms run properly on my game, could it be that because the savegame file contains the records from the original esp that was removed after changing to ESM? Even that won't probably make any sense, but some how the esms are working, although some edits like quest dialogue and heightmap changes are not.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:31 am

There's truth to what AiTenshi is saying with the sound format.

I also tend to crash in similar areas. Anytime outside Whiterun. Walking up to the Solitude gate. I hate traveling in these areas and I seem to just sprint to my destination while looking at the ground and break my immersion for a bit; if it works, it works. When it crashes, the immersion breakage is even bigger so I just don't care too much around these areas. Lots of spawn points around towns, too.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:05 pm

Actually I said ESMs without ONAM records won't have any effect.

Some people are using the CK's hidden version controls, with mixed results. Others have taken the risky move of forcing FO3Edit to add them.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:30 am

Vendayn, I posted http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1354916-experiencing-repeatable-crash-no-mods-brand-new-sky-install/page__fromsearch__1 I had in a similar area.

For entirely unrelated reasons, I had to re-install Windows. Crash went away.

EDIT: But what caused it? Why in the same place? Why did the removal of mods, ini files or an entire re-installation of the game not fix it? To this day I'm astounded by that repeatable crash and forever fearful to walk in that area.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:33 pm

Driver corruption the OS format corrected?

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:43 am

You would think driver corruption would manifest itself in more than just one place. And granted, in my case it was such a small, specific area that certainly more could have existed out there, hidden behind a rock or near a tree I would never think of going near. Skyrim is a big place, after all. But at the same time, I did a lot of travelling. Visited a ton of places. Alchemy ensured that I investigated every nook and cranny of the world I could find. And never another crash. Never in another area. If the problem was driver related, then it had a pretty severe, ultimately specific way of manifesting itself in the game world.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:11 pm

Driver problems can be strange things. In my case, it was a bad video driver at the place where you read the Elder Scroll. Flailed against that for a couple of days, then finally decided to update the driver out of desperation. Fixed it instantly. Nowhere else in the game had issues.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:19 am

Ah yes the good old Riverwood crash. I have had this exact issue, right after the waterfall, where the game locks up and freezes. The issue always seems to be related to a set of mods. WATER can be a culprit. Its actually a very clean and well constructed mod, but sometimes it just doesnt play nice with other mods. SkyTEST is another, as is Real Wildlife. Skyrim Monster Mod as well can cause the riverwood crash. You will notice most the mods i mention affect encounters and spawns. My suspicion is that these mods mess with the wolves that pop up right after the waterfall. So as previously mentioned its probably an encounter triggered issue.

I have also noticed that if you are pushing the limits of your computer with your mods, that the game is prone to crash here as well. I noticed you did not mention if you had installed any texture mods, such as SkyHD, the official hi-res DLC etc. I had to uninstall the Hi-Res DLC at one point because it was causing stability issues, even though Skyrim was using well below my max VRAM. So if you use any texture packs, try without or lower res versions, or alternatively just disbale the hi-res dlc, it may help.

On another note, you mention you use 100% clean saves? You realize that even if you only disable 1 mod, and continue to play using the same savegame, your savegame is no longer clean? To really verify that it was that specific mod you have to start a new game. There is an alternative method to "clean" savegames after mod removal, but its less efficient that starting a new game. The steps can be found here; http://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:Troubleshooting. Look under Mods and Savegames section.