hmm, think i'll wait till the next update, as most of the items i've reported were addressed in 2.3 but reverted in 2.4.

-41 -16*misc_com_metal_plate_07_uni -- unique item for quest scripting, use misc_com_metal_plate_07 (looks like the plates didn't get deleted)-43 -15*flora_gold_kanet_01_uni -- unique item for quest, use flora_gold_kanet_01 instead*flora_BM_Belladonna_01 -- solstheim item, delete*misc_com_bucket_boe_unia -- unique item for quest scripting, use misc_com_bucket_01 instead*misc_com_bucket_boe_uni -- same as previous entry*chargen_oar_left -- chargen declared item, use ex_de_ship_oarleft instead-44 -16*contain_corpse_Peke -- unique corpse, use contain_corpse10 instead*contain_releth_corpse00 -- unique corpse, use contain_corpse00 instead*contain_corpse10_ftr_01 -- unique corpse, use contain_corpse10 instead*chargen_plank -- declared chargen item, use ex_ship_plank instead-44 -15*chargen_plank -- declared chargen item, use ex_ship_plank insteadthat should take care of exteriors.

maybe the merging method doesn't quite delete as intended?

awesome will get working on it at some point tomorrow
Thanks for finding out all these bugs

=MA=

here's what i found in the interiors:

sisters of the hist:*de_p_desk_01_orrent geo -- unique desk, should use de_p_desk_01 instead*flora_gold_kanet_02_uni -- quest item, use flora_gold_kanet_02 insteadslather-mar headquarters:*misc_com_silverware_fork_uni -- quest item, change to misc_com_silverware_fork_01the cave inn:*pelagiad_halfway_room -- door used for pelagiad rent room, needs a unique id door insteadwalk the plank armory:*misc_com_bucket_boe_unib -- quest item for scripting, change to misc_com_bucket_01trader ship:*misc_com_wood_knife_uni2 -- quest item for scripting, change to misc_com_wood_knifekelp mine:key_addamasartusslaves_01 -- slave key, floating in mid-air, not sure if it should belong therea02:misc_com_bucket_boe_uniba13:misc_com_wood_spoon_01_uni2a16:misc_com_silverware_fork_unib03:misc_de_goblet_01_redas -- quest item, change to misc_de_goblet_01c05:misc_com_bucket_boe_uniband that should be it for interior 'bad' items

more:

containers:_RillerPotionschest -- has telvanni bug musk, somehow doubt this would be acceptable unless sold from an outsider._RillerPotterChest -- contains ingred_raw_glass_tinos which is a quest item (100 of them actually), should just be removedspellmaking:_Rilleranimalspell & _RillerLight of the Swamp are set to pc start spells, that should definately be removed.  every character created with this mod now gets will o the wisp because of it.

i also noticed that the armor entries are duplicated ( i.e. crabshell and sm_crabshell). also speaking of armor, i think the dreugh cuirasses should be replaced with crabshell because dreugh is very expensive and those wearing it are not wealthy or reknowned.

I already fixed the problems with the corpse containers by giving them new IDs. It's in the ESP I pmed to Midgetalien.

that's cool, i'm just trying to get most of the easy-to-spot issues out of the way. i was surprised with all of the quest items though, the author must not have known their use or their reason.

i also noticed a lot of object entries of vanilla items too. these should be deleted for compatibility, since vanilla items shouldn't be edited unless noted.

i was also thinking about this as an all-interior cell version. this was kinda mentioned in the argonian village expanded thread , but it's more fitting in this thread. i don't think it's viable will all of the exterior cells in one interior cell, but i do think it's quite possible if these cells are split up. like the harbor and shipwreck area in one cell, the watcher base in another cell, the twin lamps base in a seperate cell, and riller mosh marsh possibly kept whole, or split into few districts. with the exteriors split up, this would greatly increase performance, as well as compatibility, though it would be a lot of work. i think it's something worth thinking about down the road, but not until all of the fixing is done.

What is the weather set to for Riller-Mash? It seems like it's always sunny.

i think it's suppose to be sunny, otherwise, all of the good basking comments would be for naught.

If you could compile a list then i could remove the entries via Enchanted Editor.

I will be Replacing the Hist Guardians http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/fms/Image.php?id=81835

Hmm, I don't know. I like the Swamp Mycanoids, yes, but I don't actually know if they would be appropriate as Hist-Guardians. I say we still use them however, as they fit in Perfectly with the environment. Only problem is finding a place to put them away from the town.

Well i was thinking that the "anceints" would have created them to serve as protector to the hist. They are definatly better than the Spriggans. Was also thinking of writing up some texts on the hist guardians and maybe have them avalible as a summonable creature.

For now they will be fine untill we can find something more suitable? I just want to get rid of those spriggans.

Good points. I'm probably just too used to them since I use the Atronach Expansion mod in my game, so go ahead. Anything is better than those Spriggans.

Neat. My stuff being used: priceless

I keep downloading the most recent version of this, keep it up!

Well, now that the forum's are back, I guess you can now upload 2.4 Midget

hehe, patience

I havnt done alot - due to dissertation that needs doing. However! I have done the following:

- Merged Kro and Daroots esps to the main file
- fixed all the exterior bugs listed by terror
- fixed the Vissed bounding box (i hope)
- Added a new armor
- Changed the Hist guardians
- Changed the ancients to white argonians

I am in the process of:

- doing the mages guild

Sounds great! I hope the updates go well and quick!

Oh yeah, how about this aromr? This can fit in too! http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=5727

We have to be sure that it's a resource If we do use it, I think calling it 'Moss Armor' or something similar would work better, since we already have leafweave.

I am thnking of making the http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/fms/Image.php?id=14382 ( possibly wearing the leafweave armor)

And haveing the swamp/mushroom atronach thing as a summonable spell

I honestly disagree; Those don't fit at all. The swamp Atronach Idea was fine imho.

Then the swamp atronach stays

Greetings, All.

To Midgetalien:
We're with you, Midgetalien! We all know, and appreciate, that what you are doing now in RL (Real Life) with your dissertation takes infinite precedence over this, and your other mods, and will have a lasting effect on you for the rest of your life.
Go for it. Best of luck!!
I'm sure Krovosos can handle things in the meantime while you're otherwise occupied. No worries, mate.
We, and the inhabitants of Riller-Mosh, can wait for your further attention (they're on an island, after all -- ain't going anywhere).

To Midgetalien, Krovosos, and everyone else:

- Firstly, I want to agree wholeheartedly with, and support, Abyssmal Terror's previous comments and posts regarding further "cleaning" (not to belittle what Midgetalien has already done in this area, but the original author did put a lot of, shall we say, maybe not "dirty" cells/references, but "unnecessary" changes to many objects, cells, and NPCs that have absolutely nothing to do with Riller-Mosh and can (as Abyssmal Terror points out) be safely deleted ("Ignored" in the CS 'Details' screen before loading and saving) without adversely affecting anything.

For INFORMATION ONLY, here is what the TesTool Log reports for Riller_v2.3:
Deleted 0 GMSTs and 138 Other Objects
Updated 26 out of 149 cells, deleting 39 fields
Just gives you an idea about the magnitude of further "cleanup" work that might/could (should?) be done before release to the unsuspecting public.
(And, yes, I know many people don't like TesTool [and Princess Stomper is particularly adamant about discouraging end-users from "cleaning" HER mods with it], and I neither encourage nor discourage anyone from using whatever editors (TesTool, Enchanted Editor, Wrye Mash, or the good ol' MW Construction Set) they prefer and are comfortable with.
Nevertheless, I often find the TesTool log file helpful as an indication of what TesTool WOULD do, if you let it, even if you don't save/use the resulting "cleaned" esp.
And it does appear that there is a LOT of excess "stuff" and an automated editor of some sort will save a lot of time and effort with further, er.., "deep cleaning" efforts.

- And there will remain certain other "artifacts(??)" that automated editors won't fix, and will still need to be addressed "by hand."
Abyssmal Terror has highlighted a few - unique, MW quest related items that need to be replaced with common items, for example.
Others include instances where the original author created an actual new object, but apparently did not pay attention to the "Create New Object? Y/N" messagebox that the CS (would have) popped up, and replaced all references to an existing MW/Trib/BM object with the new one.
(For example, the many references to the "deadhist" static in a dozen or so cells having nothing to do with Riller-Mosh, which consequently flags them as "changed" in the CS).

Some are simply hilarious -- SOMETHING was done to "Ingred_moonsugar_01" to flag as "changed" by this mod practically every NPC, container, or cell throughout Vvardenfell that has moonsugar in/on it. Not good.

Nobody likes to "clean" mods. It's tedious and unrewarding, generally requires a lit of testing to make sure you haven't broken something or introduced other errors/problems.
Conversely, working on NEW content is fun and entertaining, so everybody gravitates to that aspect. Perfectly understandable.
But nevertheless, in support of Abyssmal Terror, this "excess/unnecessary stuff" will need to be addressed eventually.
Pay me now, or pay me later.
Us "helper elves" can certainly assist (as Abyssmal Terror has done already). Just let us know.

- And then there's the other stuff- new content actually added that is either excess, messed up, or just plain wrong and needs fixing.
Dialogue, half-finished quests, non-consistent content (the "stahlrim hammer" and "snow on the hut roof" things that have already been fixed are perfect examples. But, there are more like that hiding in even v.2.4.
And the "Blardy Barl" quest is by no means as "finished" as it could be (e.g., Khajit in the bar dialogue only has 2 responses to 3 Player choices; 500 septims is imply too much to pay for the little information he offers; should be possible to "persuade" him to part with the info for much less, or even nothing, particularly if the Player is also "...in the Guild."
Shimon the Liar should, conversely, be a bit more reluctant to part with HIS info, and should also be "persuadable." Player should get some more hints toward quest completion, particularly where to go looking for Jarkis (And I got a LOT of ideas about that guy, and how he could be used in some other quests besides this one). But, that's for later.

Anybody come across the "Bob and Jim" quest yet? No? (It doesn't exist in-game, only in the Construction Set). Includes 2 NPCs, dialogue, Journal entries, a book, and a script (and, R-rated), all taking up space for no purpose.
(Suspect these are/were "placeholders" the original mod author used to copy/paste parts for actual quests/dialogue/Journal/script stuff, and they just did not get deleted prior to release of the mod (But then, even the Big Boys at Bethesda left the "Clutter WareHouse" and Todd Test" cells behind in the Morrowind.esm, so don't feel too bad).
These need to go (Midgetalien doesn't need no steenking placeholders to make quests). But do read it first, for a laugh.

Lastly, a personal gripe:
I found the "Torture of the Slaver" business in the SS Deliverance to be particularly sad, and disturbing. Immediately wanted to help the captive, but even if the great hulking torturer was eliminated, still nothing my PC could do (no "Companion Share" or "AI Follow package" for her).
Something about torturing women just rubs me the wrong way. Too much of that kind of thing going on in Real Life. Don't need to encourage or feature it in this (or any other) mod.
And, Twin Lamps? Don't think so. (But then, before Bush and Cheney, nobody associated torture with Americans, either).

Nevertheless, request most humbly that you: 1.change the captured slaver to a male, and 2.move the whole torture chamber business from the Twin Lamps area to the jail under the Slather-Mar Headquarters (now, those guys I would NOT put past torturing prisoners. But Twin Lamps? No. That's just not right).

If you do, I'll volunteer to make a "rescue the prisoner" quest (persuade/induce through dialogue the torturer to get lost; escort the prisoner to the Warmblood Embassy for "repatriation" to Vvardenfell [either bring back the Dunmer Ambassador, whats-her-name, or use the Orc or Redguard ambassadors for assistance (they seem nice), since the Wood Elf is used for a different quest, the Khajit is just unfriendly, and the other two women ambassadors seem only concerned about themselves].

Man, still in Beta, and I'm already so immersed in this thing that I'm mentally assigning unique personality traits to the various artificial pixellated people on the island!

Cheers

DARoot

Thank you again for taking the time to test the mod through I'm just going to post my opinion on some of your points, mainly on the tortured Woman: The captured slaver was my creation, along with most of the tweaks within the ship: Thus, I don't honestly agree with changing the gender of the slaver, since it was my intention for the character from the start, and changing it would probably soften the reaction the PC had when encountering her (Would you have honestly felt the same way if it was a male slaver?).

That said, I did have plans involving the release of the prisoner by the player, but this would turn the Twin-Lamps members against the PC, and I have no Idea to script it so that relations with the Vanilla Twin-Lamps would not be effected..

If enough people agree, then yes, the gender of the Slaver will be changed, but at the moment I don't see a strong reason why, since the very existence of the captive was to have the player decide between helping her or leaving her to her doom. What the brute guarding her said was not exaggerated, btw. But I understand how you feel though, and if you are still left unhappy then I will gladly change the gender of the slaver.

As for moving the captive, I imagined the Twin Lamps on the SS Deliverance to be a 'Sub-group' of the Lamps on Vvardenfell, with differing goals and plans. I was thinking creating a new faction in the CS and assigning it to each of the SS Deliverance Crew-mates to prevent further confusion. Remember that it was the original author of this mod that made them Twin-Lamps NPC's in the first place..

PS: I'm rather flattered that something I did was able to leave an impression on someone

Greetings, All.

A few thoughts on several subjects->

To Krovosos, regarding the "captured slaver" -
I have said what I thought. You are certainly entitled to your own thoughts.
When this mod goes final, rest assured that, once it is on my hard drive and is mine to do with as I please (within my limited capabilities, of course), if this stuff is still present, it will disappear.
End of statement.

- Regarding moving Riller-Mosh to an all-interior cell format:
Neat idea, if you can do it. It apparently can be done (but, not by me).
Certainly understand why Quorn chose "Seige of Firemoth" to show us all how this could be accomplished ("Seige of Firemoth" conflicted with dozens of mods, and was a Bethesda creation, so good luck asking THEM to revise it).
His accomplishment is great, and we all appreciate what he has done. But, we also understand that this was a "project unto itself" that involved a lot of effort.
Other accomplished modders have created whole landmasses using just interior cells (Princess Stomper, for example).

My understanding is that Interior cells (while they can have weather effects, lighting, etc. to duplicate Exterior cells) have no land.
"One day, ye shall smell land where there is no land.
On that day, Ahab shall rise from ....." No, No. Nevermind that.
Somebody has to create a mesh that EXACTLY duplicates the existing Riller-Mosh Exterior landscape, and then copy/paste all the existing Riller-Mosh objects onto the (pretty much) exact same places on that mesh as they originally occupied.
(If you want to take this on, You can key off the location of the door to the "sisters of the Hist" in existing (exterior) cell (-42,-15), which has coordinates x=-342959, y=-114876, z=-212, Rotation=0,0,354, and place all the other objects relative to that in the new Interior cell. Have fun).

But, speaking a someone who has moved a lot of exterior cell landscape around with TesFaith over the years, this stuff is not for the faint of heart.

And, it seems from this (and the previous) thread that neither Midgetalien nor Krovosos seem inclined to take on that extra effort at this particular time (still much to be done to "fix up" the mod as it currently exists).
[Not my place to say so, but seems appropriate to insert here the time-honored "upper management" response to "Benny Suggs" ("Beneficial Suggestions," for those not familiar with that RL term):
"Great! Capital Idea. I'm putting YOU in charge of that project. Keep us informed on your progress. Do you think you can have a working example of the product available for our review by July 1?"]

However, there ARE a few things that can be done (right now) with the existing mod, to reduce the "exterior cell footprint" and help minimize conflicts with other mods:

-Currently (v.2.4), the actual Riller-Mosh landmass only actually occupies approximately a 12-cell rectangle from (-44,-14) to (-41,-16).
This assumes you do a little judicious editing of the LAND record for the south border of Cell (-42,-16) to bring the "edge" of the land entirely within that cell, eliminating the need for the LAND record in (-42,-17).
It's also possible to eliminate the top two corners [(-44,-14) and (-41,-14)] without serious harm, resulting in a 10-cell "footprint," but for now let's stick with a 4 X 3 cell "footprint."

-All the other cells surrounding these 12 "core" cells (including those that may currently be named "Riller-Mosh" rather than "Wilderness") can be removed from the mod without seriously affecting anything (and will go a long way toward minimizing possible conflicts with other mods that add content in this general area).
You do know that the CS will generally tag not only the cell(s) you have actually landscape-edited, but also the 9 cells surrounding it, as "changed," don't you? Whether there's actually any LAND change or not. Just need to remember to "Ignore" these in the CS and save the plugin again.

-Many surrounding cells (with, or without, LAND records) are also flagged as "changed" by the mod because they contain some "Leveled Creature" objects added by the original author.
(Remember, Alhambra originally intended for this to be used with "Abot's Water Life"). These are also the source of the "Dreaugh" that somebody on the earlier thread encounterd, and complained about as not consistent with the location of this landmass.
For these, one could either:
a. move the critters closer to shore, within the 12 landscape cells referenced above, or
b. just delete them, and their cells, and (for later on), consider exactly what kind of water life should be around this island, add new, unique critters and Leveled Lists, and (perhaps for Riller_v.2.7?) place them where you think the Player would be most likely to encounter them (e.g., NOT next to sheer cliffs).

-Any cells that are flagged as "changed" by the CS, but don't contain an identifiable NPC, Travelmarker, Doormarker, or other object specific to this mod, are most likely "artifacts" and need to be removed (or certainly investigated in the CS, at least), to help prevent conflicts with other people's mods.
(My favorite "dirty references" are PGRDs, with "LTEX" a close second. That, and LAND references that don't have a corresponding CELL reference. And any cell named "Wilderness" with a CS asterisk gets my attention right away. But then, when I "clean" mods for my own use, I am...brutal).

Cheers

DARoot

It's not that we're not inclined, it's just that we weren't aware of the extent of how dirty the mod was, along with the fact that there's real-life to deal with. I'll see what I can remove with TESAME, if possible, but I can't work on cleaning just now.

Hi guys!

Wow lots to read through!

I am thinking of turing the mod into an interior mod. But i dont know how to do this ( though i can send some emails and get the idea moving at some point)

BUT this is a big but by the way, PLEASE DO NOT clean/remove refrences YET.
I know i am all tied up in real life atm and releases are slow, for now. But i have a version 2.5 in the works and its doing alot of minor and some major changes. I wouldnt want to cause problems and have to re-do all the work.

So for now, can we just bug report so that we have it all in the open ready for future releases? I will try to work on the mod tomorrow and get version 2.5 out (though not with the mages guild as i have yet to finish it - it wont be anything epic but i dont want to release it when its just an empty building atm.)

So please bare with me and watch this space - i appricate all the effort and time spent on the mod from those helping to patch it up and those reporting bugs.

Essentially before i look into moving it all interior i want the mod cleaned and realitivly bug free. I think we are hitting that target. Once we have the mod is going to be released on PES to a wider audiance and then ways to make it interior will be looked into.

Hope this all makes sense, i am tired from having not slept in 48 hours and writing page after page on Roman froniters and the conquest of Britain relating to the faliure of Scotland. So on that note i think i am going to get a couple of hours sleep!

peace out

=MA=

Great news! I can't wait for the next update! I hope it fixes the census papers.