Why would anyone take upon them the very expensive and time-consuming job of creating androids to hold them as slaves?

Non-intelligent robots have no feelings, won't rebel against their owners, they don't suffer fatigue, thirst, hunger. They're simply the better workers, capable of fulfilling much more dangerous and hefty tasks than any android could (I only have an example in Harkness / A3-21, who is NOT as sufficient a labourer as a robot could be).

So why?

Well....

What you say is certainly true, but you're forgetting about Science!

A theme of Fallout is science run amok, future shock, unchecked progress and technological advancement. Fallout's universe contains a seemingly unending supply of mad scientists. A common theme that pops up a lot is the concept of the scientist who is less concerned with the moral or practical implications of what they're doing, and more interested in the very fact of the research itself.

(In other words - "You ask why I would create a race of sentient and self-aware replicants to use as slaves when a robot without free will would make a much better servant? To you I say, because I could, therefore I must!")

A mad scientist isn't necessarily going to begin with a goal and then design something which fills that role. More... "likely" would be that you've got a mad scientist that created a bunch of androids and whoever it is that rules the place (possibly even the mad scientist I suppose) decided to use those androids as slaves. ie, a mad scientist isn't going to make androids specifically to be used as slaves - they're going to be making androids and leaving someone else to worry about what to do with them.

Of course that's obviously just rationalization on my part. It's basically the Blade Runner problem - clearly these things are more trouble than they're worth, and on top of you not being able to keep them from rebelling or going crazy but you've decided to make them look exactly like humans so that they're also nearly impossible to find. But the entire premise is based on that, and more important is the metaphorical imagery and allegory anyway, so what are going to do?

Robots aren't as flexible when it comes to problem-solving, they will follow whatever programs are put into them but they aren't going to think outside the box when it is going to be necessary. So no, they aren't better slaves than androids. However, an android with limited AI is better than an android with full fledged AI as the one with proper AI is far more likely to rebel than the other one.

It's dangerous to let slaves think outside of the box (Spartacus comes to mind). That's the job for the man with the whip. All the slave needs to do, is the heavy lifting.

That's why you give them limited AI so that they can think outside the box but they don't have a concept of free will or anything that would drive a human being.

Some robots for example are going to be unable to climb stairs or climb ledges, an android on the other hand can do that. A robot with a program to search for something could very well overlook whatever it is searching for because the angle isn't right or because it is under some rubble. An android will look at the part and go "it does look a 'bit' like what I'm out to get, maybe I should take a close look".

Besides, for high class snobs with servants do you think they would rather have a flexible android which is capable of more delicate services or a huge clunky robot that could very well knock [censored] down?

Androids aren't going to replace robots in every kind of duty, but for some jobs a android with limited AI would be far more suitable and effective.

You're right, escort services come to mind for example.

On the other hand there are humanoid robots in Fallout, and giving them limited AI could serve most labour purposes as well, while being much more efficient.

Also the limited AI we've seen so far in androids tends to be very unstable, much more like a full-fledged AI with easy-to-break restrictions.

Then why not create a robot that can climb stairs and have better sensors. Robots are cheaper to create and maintain, and less fragile (what with being completely metallic) and simpler to program anyway, and one would think they're stronger too due to parts and functions specifically designed for a given task be it holding a tray of drinks or half a ton rock; while probably not as nimble (though, you could create a robot to do somersaults too, if that was wanted).

This being about slavery; of course you would probably need an android with a comprehensive inbuilt databank to work in conditions where human nimbleness is required but conditions aren't optimal for the use of real human or a simple robot (like escort services; the movie AI comes to mind, but there are faults there too); but then again, it wouldn't be slavery anymore, just using a tool.

My hope is that it is very difficult to create said androids. The Fallout franchise should tread lightly on this subject, we do not need thousands of androids mucking up the waters in every single game. Our mindsets could change to "Oh! Maybe this leader of a random faction is an Android!" Even when the game has nothing to do with Androids. Once they are integrated into the game, there is no turning back.

So a simple solution would be to limit how many androids there could possibly be ala: Android blue prints were destroyed along with their creator, takes an extreme amount of resources to create multiples, and automatic shutdown button for all Androids, etc. This way we could still get Androids and enjoy them to.

I agree. Last time the debate came up about that topic I suggested the samething. Why create a being so human like in every way possible, including bleeding, growing hair and body order and having to use the toilet.. just to enslave it? Why not just enslave people

I get androids can do more things than simple Fallout robots.. but you can just build a better robot. You can program them to adapt and all that or again just enslave people.

After a very long debate last time, it boiled down "because they can."

I am not really happy with that, but I guess it is the only explanation that makes any sense.

Wasn't the free will an anomaly among the androids? That is, most were just extremely complicated intelligent machines that behaved like sophisticated robots, but every once in a while one would 'wake up' and develop a sense of self. I had the impression that the free will was an unintended consequence, not something that was deliberately given to them.

Yes it was but it was happening enough that the Commonwealth had to come up with teams to go after run away androids and that an underground network of people formed to help free them.

So they have advance to such a point that one just has to ask... why would you do that just to enslave them? If you want someone to wash your clothing and walk your dog why make it that advanced?

It's all leading up to Fallout Blade Runner..

Human slaves would be more efficient than androids, their far more plentiful and can be dispatched rather easily as meatsacks not made of metal.

Considering that the Institute has a organisation specifically created to track down escaped androids I can only assume it's a frequent occurrence so what's the point? How can a a human shaped robot honestly be worth all the extra [censored] when you could just get three human slaves to do the job?

Assuming it's menial labor. I guess the real question is what is it that you would need something like an android labor force for? Operating advanced technology in an environment hazardous to humans?

What I never understood was how can they? I mean, the only android we've really seen was capable of being every bit as intelligent as a human being, it may as well have been one. But before Harkness, the only AI capable of such intelligence were massive computers like the ZAX. It makes the highly advanced ZAX seem like nothing when you've got artificial humans that are so real they fool themselves and their own creators into believing they are.

Then why go as far as giving them skin and hair and the ability to go to the toilet and have BO if they are going to be in a place that would destroy skin and such?

I can think of two reasons why they would do it. For six slaves... or as advanced spies to go into other communities to get intel. I am leaning more towards six slaves.

I am thinking Fallout Blade Runner.

Agreed, androids do jump the shark with their super advance tech. Gone are the says of 1950s clunky robots of Fallout.. now it will be super advanced androids that are so human that you can live with one and not even notice

maybe the android thing isn't just about slaves.

Perhaps they ware working towards eventually downloading a mind into an android.
The fountain of youth if you will.

But before they get to that point, they need to thoroughly test the limitations of both a mechanical mind and the "body" that it interfaces with- together- to ensure it works properly..

We cannot look at these as 1950's-esque tech and say it won't fit, because, as i have been told, post-apoc FO isn't supposed to be 1950's at all.

They are clearly slaves, why else would groups try to free them? Also if it was trying to create body to put a human mind into, I am sure they would be able to do it. The tech already exists to put a human mind into a computer/robot, we have seen it. Robot Brains and Big Mt.

Fallout is supposed to be what they people thought the future would be like only nuked to hell.

It isn't supposed to be about Blade Runner... Which it is going to happen.

That F.I.S.T.O. is a good slave.

Send an Android to join a group of Raiders and join them, and then eliminate the Raiders as a threat to Your Society.

Regardless of the intended purposes, the AI developing consciousness wouldn't want to be a part of it, for either scenario. One has them as slaves, the other has the androids mind being erased, essentially killing them.

Yes, there weer plenty of examples of robo-brains and floating head-bots. The point in DL'Iing a mind into an android is that the vessel would feel human to the "wearer"l. Taste, touch, sight, smell and hearing-as a person would. Articulation of joints, in a human like way. looking in the mirror and seeing a person, as opposed to a clunky robot that can't get off of its back if its knocked over. The ability to still interact with other (unknowing?) humans as if you were a human.

The old "'a nuked to hell 1950's" outlook doesn't resonate with everything in the game, hardly any of the factions actually fit how that 1950's outlook would suggest they should (many are a lot closer to 80's movies). And it isn't as if the concept of an androids started with blade runner, anyway.., Androids got a start in the 30's and 40's, so I don't see how the "nuked 50's" outlook holds any weight here.

We already had the Blade Runner reference in FO3. Even Bethesda wouldn't use the same idea twice.

Btw. this whole speculation is only valid if thesurvivor2299 plot also is used in the actual game. So if thesurvivor2299 is fake (as a lot of people think) all cards are shuffeled new again and even if it's legit doesn't mean that the game have to use the same story and location.

I don't think we get another Blade Runner story.

Not everyone in the game is going to act like it's the 1950s. The pre-war world was what people though the 1950s would be like. Their world was nuked to hell, so that sets the stage for Fallout. The world that grew out of that retro-1950s vision of the future. The technology is supposed to be retro-futuristic 1950s. But clearly it has gone way beyond that. Went from Robby the Robot type technology to super advanced android technology. Advanced AI in Fallout involves massive super computers, and now we have that AI packed in the brain of a human sized skull.

Also Fallout 3 was just the start of the Blade Runner references I am sure of it. If Fallout 4 is going to be in Boston then the whole thing is just going to be Blade Runner. I wouldn't be shocked if it turned out the player ends up being an android.

I mean we already had 'AI packed in the brain of a human sized skull' in Fallout 2
Skynet, he was supposedly a true AI and depending on what brain you used in building a body for him the more useful he was (CYBERNETIC brain was the best, if i recall correctly, though im not sure whether it was fully cybernetic or just human with cybernetic implants or whatever)

But still, not all AIs need giant room-sized mainframes to function...
Of course, you could say that Skynet was simply a reference to Terminator so therefore it's not canon, but i would be inclined to disagree, since it was not just a random encounter like the Tardis or whatever

Regarding the size issue, it's worth pointing out that the room sized ZAX supercomputers are 200 year old pre-war machines. The Institute's androids are a result of ongoing technological advancement.

I hadn't considered all this. Why go through all the effort of making them as human like as possible only to use them the same as human slaves?

I never liked the idea to begin with in Fallout 3, but because it was only a side quest I didn't mind. I hope it's not another black/white conflict where you either help the poor enslaved androids or round them up "Cuz I'm evil".

They may have been built to infiltrate other factions, but considering the fact that many people know androids exist I can't see how that would be very effective.