I've wondered what would happen if you killed him before the headsman got a chance to... a quick stealth arrow through the head, maybe.

Everyone tries to kill you (I did that before xD)

yeah, i tried that as well.

I always have to watch the execution for some reason, anytime I just walk past it and go inside a shop fight music starts and several guards are in the shop with their weapons drawn. Left me there like "Okay, okay, I'll watch. Geez"

Ya the few times I've played a Nord I didn't get very mad about it. Wrong place wrong time. As a Khajiit, Argonian or Elf it's rather infuriating however.

I've wondered about this for a bit...since it was 'totally cool by Nord law' why exactly was Ulfric fleeing the city in the first place?

Probably because he knew that the Empire wouldn't give a damn about Nord law. Roggvir on the other hand probably was naive, as were the other guards, but I doubt any of them expected someone to be executed for it. Sybille confirms that this was legal, btw, but Empire law overrides theirs, if they let it, and they did, since Elisif was upset, understandably so.

But consider this. If the Empire's law overrides theirs, and it does...why do you think they felt the need to lie and say Ulfric shouted their King apart, and they never mention a duel? Because they wanted it to sound like a case of murder, not Nord custom being overruled by the Empire. That would make them look bad to everyone if they admitted that. And we know for sure that Ulfric wasn't lying about not shouting him apart, because we have the developer's notes:

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000c07ee

Look at the red.

According he is the good one.

Most of solitude citizen think otherwise. Not to mention other player.

It's quite sad the way his execution is scripted. I have killed the headsman with a single potent arrow just as he raises his axe, only to be gifted with the sight of Roggvir's head mystically severing itself from his body with his lifeless corpse falling to the side.

yes, there is. you will need any temporary reanimate dead. you will need to NOT have the dual cast perk.

dual cast the reanimate dead spell on captain aldis. if done correctly, aldis will turn into a pile of ash with the animation of being destroyed after being animated. mission complete.

when you leave the area and return, captain aldis will reappear and return to his duties. so will the rest of the guards and spectators. roggvir LIVES. he does not die of a heart attack. the script that kills him is broken and he is never set to non-essential. roggvir, upon re-entry may teleport to a non-player space near whiterun. if you fly out of solitude, you can find him floating in space where whiterun should be. (fly, not leave). you can talk to aldis by walking up to him as he wanders or you can reactivate the now permanent ash pile to auto talk to him no matter where he is.

if you dual cast reanimate on roggvir, the script will break. after the speech, 30 seconds later, roggvir's head will pop out of thin air in a very unsettling manner.

Yeah, it svcks that you can't save the man. I usually just watch or hurry along 'cause it's none of my business. Though I will say that once I fush-ro-dah'd the crowd, the guards, the helmsman, and Rogvir. The results were hilarious: everyone was trying to kill me or fleeing from me. Rogvir just stood there all sad...until he keeled over anyway. Guess the shock of being blasted by the Thu'um was too much for him?

Ah, thanks. Turns out you can also "kill" essentials this way, right? I'll try this once my mage character finally escapes from Helgen.

As most off the shopkeepers are away to watch the show you can get some good deals in their shops.

I doubt that Nord's would give a damn about Nord law in this situation. Whatever the law might say, you can't run a kingdom on the 'our king gets challenged to a duel and dies' principle. That just gives you a dictatorship by the most violent, and those never work.

If I were Ulfric I'd have split too. Because no moot at that point would hand the throne to a regicide, and the first act of the next king would have to be to have Ulfric's head removed before he could call for another duel.

If Nords didn't care, then how did Ulfric end up with half of Skyrim? He gained that support after Torygg's death BECAUSE of the duel, and they recognized him as the rightful king. You better believe they care. If not, Torygg wouldn't have accepted the duel in the first place. If the Empire didn't interfere, their choice would have been to support elisif, and just have Ulfric duel her, or support Ulfric and nip it in the bud. And it's worked for them thus far.

Because half of Skyrim thinks they are better off with Ulfric for a variety of reasons. I'm pretty sure the Silverbloods aren't supporting Ulfric out of respect for Nord law, for example.

How so? They aren't breaking any laws by doing what they're doing. A big part of Ulfric's campaign is that he is a strong king who proved this through the duel of Nord law. Fact is, Ulfric didn't gain half of Skyrim until he killed Torygg.

They may not be breaking any laws (the whole using their privately contracted prison as a labor camp for personal profit is a bit murky, as is fomenting the foresworn insurgency in order to profit from defending against it), but if any law got in the way of their profits they surely would...with Ulfric they get their guy as Jarl and don't have to worry about any laws getting in their way. You can pull out plenty of quotes I'm sure, but trying to portray the Silverbloods as anything other than totally venal moneygrubbers is I think beyond even you.

It's not at all what I'm trying to show. Not even remotely, and is completely besides the point, however it does show that if anyone approves of "might is right", it would be the silverbloods, no?

That outlines my point rather well. The Nords do care about that tradition, or Ulfric would not have nearly as much support as he does.

The Silverbloods only think might is right if they can buy the might.

As I said, half of Skyrim supports Ulfric...for a myriad of reasons many of which have nothing to do with Nord law. If Ulfric could have made a solid stand on Nord law he would have been able to stand there in Solitude and do so. He fled to rally support, by whatever means he could rally it, and most of it didn't rally to 'Nord law'. Most of it rallied to simple opportunism, like the Silverbloods did.

And this shows they don't like might how?

Obviously they support him for other reasons, but Ulfric. gained. support. by. earning. the right. as king. through the duel. You trying to argue they don't care after he gained half of Skyrim right after Torygg's death is infuriatingly annoying because it ignores facts. He had been rebelling against the Empire before that time, as Hadvar tells us, and they all knew why. He didn't gain real traction until after the duel. Obviously the duel played a very crucial role in gaining support. You can't argue they didn't care. He ran because he knew the Empire would come and execute him. You really think someone could escape Solitude after killing the king from the palace? He isn't Ezio. Obviously they weren't intent on arresting him at that time.

'He was rebelling against the empire' wasn't causing a civil war in Skyrim. That involved killing the King to make way for a battle over succession to the throne of Skyrim. His supporters are interested in 'what will the next king do for me', and they think Ulfric will do more for them than their other options. The Silverbloods covet the Jarl's seat and Ulfric will give it to them...their interest in 'Nord law' is dubious at best. Greymane likes the business the civil war generates and knows if Ulfric wins there will be a continuing war with the legions to stoke his forge...his interest in Nord law is dubious at best.

When a king is killed, heads will roll...and hanging around Solitude would have put Ulfric's head among them, so he split. A guard who opened a gate to allow that should have followed him right out through that gate if he had any wits whatsoever.

Again, NAY. The civil war was going on for years. Ask the Stormcloak that owns the general goods store in Falkreath.

I'm gonna break this down for you one last time, then I'm done. Ulfric's civil war existed before Torygg's death. It did not gain real support until after Torygg was killed. If they did not care about the law, then Ulfric would look like a murderer, and would have considerably less support, and less people joining his cause. They DO care.

That's one of the biggest discrepancies between the two sides. If it was murder or was it an honorable duel and legal by the law. You're the only person I know to argue it wasn't important to anyone. If they didn't care, how did Ulfric even escape the palace in the first place? Or get through two Solitude city gates? The idea is ridiculous.

I'm done now. I'm not in the mood to repeat the same arguments over and over. Last word is yours, at least for a while.

Okay then, last word...Ulfric gained traction after he killed the king because the opportunities presented by a possible KING ULFRIC make a huge impression on people like the Silverbloods, among others. No one gave a pig's fart about all the 'independent Skyrim' blather before the king was killed, just like they don't give a pig's fart about Nord law now. They are purely interested in what a change in the 'royal line' can do for them. Jarl's who know King Ulfric would hand their seat to a rival oppose him, and those who Jarls who have his favor don't. Families who might gain a Jarl's seat support him, those who have the favor of their current Jarl who opposes Ulfric oppose him too. They are all motivated by pure selfish interest, and the only 'true sons of Skyrim' are out here on the forum, not in the game.

Which I mostly find hilarious.

I agree...except for the hilarious part.