OK 44 rooms, nicely balanced....now what? : Fallout 4

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:15 am

I have 78 people, I guess I can grow it to 200 in the same manner. I have no problems with food, water and power, all my people defend themselves easily against raiders, roaches and fire so...do I just keep going until 200 people or is there something I ma missing? anything in game play that is interesting beyond manintaing the balance up to 200? give me some tips about how you guys break the monotony after you get to 50 people and about 40 rooms...thanks, T

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:05 pm

I am rearranging my vault on a regular basis:p

Never seem to get the 'right' layout

But you should wait till you reach 100, them build Nuka bottler rooms.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:51 pm

I challenge myself to see how many concurrent pregnancies I can have in my vault. So far my best is 29. I'm sure I'll be able to do better now that my population is at 123.

» Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:55 am

t

lol ok I might try that! T

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:38 pm

I stopped the pregnancies when I reached 100. The radio room provides me with a steady supply of fresh dna, now.

» Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:01 am

yeah, I saw that. after the bottling plant IO guess it will be "let it ride"...T

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:30 pm

"Nicely balanced"? Good.

Now... Tip the balance.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:22 pm

Salutations fellow Overseers,

I'm at 78 dwellers and also have no problem with resources! It's all running pretty smoothly!

Now I'm just trying to get to full capacity!

ヾiCopeゞ

Vault 42 Over...

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:23 am

thats what I am worried about, a run up to full and blah....I can see that experimenting might be fun. I also wish the devs had told a little more about stats and how they affect gameplay, all this trying and guessing is not my cup of tea. however I willwait until 100 and the cola thing to make any drastic decisions. T

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:06 pm

Same here , there's nothing to do now , they need to update it already with new content

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:30 pm

Why? They're worthless as anything other than glorified decorations.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:08 pm

78 Dwellers and 44 Rooms?!

You should try to streamline your base. Build up your cash and start rearranging.

My base is a few days old and is at 94 Dwellers and 22 Rooms now and I still see alot of inefficiencies.

Try to make the most efficient base, all resource buildings 3x3, all barracks also 3x3. Make your training buildings 2x3, except maybe luck and strength could possible be 3x3 for the long run. Slowly make all your Dwellers as perfect ad you can.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:50 pm

Worthless and glorified? Epic lol...

A fully upgraded Nuka room provides you with +50 water AND +50 food, at the same time as water purifier or the garden which only generate +50 of one resource each, for "only" 15k more. The garden and water purifier costs 30k for level 3, 3 room. So that's 100% MORE for 25% LESS caps compared to the other two. Also, they generate TWICE the amount at the same time. Add that on top of the +300 storage capacity for each resource, where the other two only provide +300. Lastly, they provide workspace for your Endurance dwellers, which you need in order to recieve lunchboxes. So, 45k for a 3 room upgraded Nuka bottler plant is actually quite a no brainer.

Breakdown:

cost production: store time (with full stats)

Garden 3 room level 3 : 30.000 50 food 300 food 60s

Purifier 3 room level 3 : 30.000 50 water 300 water 60s

NukaCola 3 room level 3 : 45.000 50 food 50 water 300 food 300 water 60s

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:10 pm

https://github.com/Sharlikran/fsdoc/blob/master/Rooms/WaterTreatment.md https://github.com/Sharlikran/fsdoc/blob/master/Rooms/Diner.md https://github.com/Sharlikran/fsdoc/blob/master/Rooms/NukaColaBottler.md

For the money you can get for ONE non-upgraded Nuka Cola room, you can get one or two of Diner and Treatment both at tier 3. And getting dwellers to fill them isn't hard if you mass breed.

Do you even Math?!

And as for endurance people, just wasteland them.

It'd be one thing if it gave a storage capacity bonus like the advanced reactor does for power, but it doesn't. Both it and the garden and purifier have the same storage capacities. It's simply not worth it to pay thousands of more caps for 10 more production, especially since it's storage that's really important.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:52 pm

Lol, you are comparing the Nuka plant with the treatment and the diner, which tops are 40 production, each. Nuka plants are way more efficient. Sure they cost more but on the long run, it has way higher revenue. Not to mention the power consumption. If we consider all things.

I think you should freshen up your own maths :wink:

Nuka plants blow everything else straight out of the water.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:36 am

40 vs 50 (and that's only on tier 3 btw... which total is going to cost you WAY more than 45000 caps. You still have to build the thing first of all and upgrade it to teir 2 first or did you conveniently forget this part?) is hardly "way more efficient", especially at that insane cost. It's a 1.25x difference for >20x the cost and no storage bonus. Again, it's not just production, it's also about the storage. And about upgrade/purchase cost vs improvement.

Power consumption... Oh for pete's sake. The marginal power and space you'll save is hardly worth the massive price tag. Seriously, by this point you've probably switched to nuke plants which unlike the nuke bottler is actually worth the upgrade due to the storage. If you're having power problems you'd be better off sticking the money in that than wasting it on a crappy bottler.

It's a glorified decoration.

You're only half right with that last sentence. It does blow.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:47 am

Look, there's no need to get rude. It only shows how much you get frustrated at understanding maths. :smile:

"You still have to build the thing first of all and upgrade it to teir 2 first or did you conveniently forget this part?) "

No, of course not. But that comment works both ways because the other rooms, also cost more to fully upgrade, or did you conveniently forgot about that as well?

25% more profit is considered "WAY" more profit by any measurement, fyi.

My point remains, Nuka plants blow everything else straight out of the water. Especially since caps doesn't buy you anything good in this game. Any economic would completely agree here.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:05 am

I reached optimum capacity at around 45 dwellers and 20some rooms. Since then I've been sending my surplus, low stat population into the wasteland, doing a Pokemon-style Gotta Catch Em All of weapons and outfits.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:57 pm

That's the whole point, imo. Mininum staff on the inside, maximum staff on the outside. Nuka plants do more with less staff which ergos a higher revenue.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:23 pm

:stare:

Okay, since you really can't seem to be arsed to put two and two together, I'm going to break this down one step at a time.

A diner costs 100 caps for 1 room, plus 25 caps for each additional room after that.

Ditto with a water treatment plant. Since the costs are the same, I'll be using the diner exclusively for cost calculation, multiplied by 2 where appropriate to account for having to build both.

To build a width 3 teir 1 diner costs 350 caps. To build two (to overtake the bottler's production advantage) costs 825 caps. Multiply that by two to account for 1650 caps total.

---

A nuka cola plant costs 3000 caps, plus 750+ caps per room after the first. So 3000 for the first, 3750 for the second, and 4500 for the third.

3000+3750+4500= 11250. And we're not even talking upgrades yet.

That's 581% more expensive to build Three Bottlers than it is to build two diners and two water treatment plants!! And for only a 25% increase in production (something that's completely negated by using two of each)? And on top of that, building two diners and two water treatment plants grants 600 storage each. Building a bottler only grants 300 to both.

:blink: We haven't gotten very far and it's already not looking good, is it?

But hey, let's give the poor bottler a sporting chance here. I mean odds are you already have a diner or several and a water treatment or several. So for the sake of argument let's say... five 3width rooms of each. That's a total of 15 diners and 15 water treatments. Of course, no vault in their right mind would run that many, even at max capacity, but I'm feeling extremely generous. And let's say we want to build 2 more (since it would take 2 more to overtake the 25% increase production AND add 2x the storage of the bottler). Which would bring our total number of diners up to 21. (Again, insane. But we're being generous here.)

So the starting price is now 475. The next one would be 500, the next one after that 525, etc.

Which means: 475+500+525+550+575+600 = 3225 for both 3w rooms. Multiply that by 2 (to factor in the water treatment plant as well) and you get 6450 caps Total.

6450 caps for 6 Diner rooms and 6 Water Treatment rooms when there are already 15 of each as it is. Even with this insane handicap, Three bottler rooms is still 42% more expensive for a measly 25% production gain and a 50% storage loss to boot!

Even with a quite frankly ridiculous handycap, you can still get 12 rooms of those two cheaper than 3 of the bottler. And all you get out of the bottler is 25% more production value, which might I add is hardly worth it. Not to mention, yet again, you actually gain more out of the two 3x diners and 3x water treatments because you get twice as much storage out of them both.

Now, if you haven't thrown in the towel yet let's talk upgrades.

On a diner/WT, to upgrade to tier 2 is 500 caps. to upgrade to tier 3 from tier 2 is 1500 caps. 2000 caps total to upgrade from tier one to tier 3. 4000 caps total to upgrade both a diner and a water treatment plant. Times that by 2 to get 8000 caps needed to upgrade two 3wt1 diners and 2 3wt1 WTs to tier 3.

Add that to the cost of construction. 1650 + 8000 = 9650 ... yes, it costs 14% less to build two 3wt1 diners, two 3wt1 water treatment plants for four 3wt1 rooms total, and upgrade them all to tier 3, than it does to build one 3wt1 bottler.

--

To add even more insult to the above, let's look a the bottler's upgrade cost.

15000 caps to upgrade a 3w room to tier 2. 45000 caps to upgrade to tier 3. For a total of 60000 caps.

Add that to the construction cost of 11250 caps, and your grand total comes to 71250 caps.

In closing: It is a whoping 638% more expensive to build and fully upgrade a single 3w bottler than it is to build two 3w diners and two 3w water treatments and upgrade all four of them to tier 3.

... and all this for less people (which you can make easily) and a 25% productivity increase (over one, not two) and no storage increase?!

?I'm sorry, but your math does not stack up. The cost vs gain does not stack up either.

Now, I'm sure you'll come up with some sort of excuse... IE that it costs more people (breed them and/or build more Barracks. Those are pretty cheap too btw.), costs more in power (power plants aren't expensive either, and if you're at this point you'll probably be running nukes anyway. 3 or 4 nuke reactors is enough capacity for even a 200 vault). But honestly, these are pretty weak excuses. Even if we factor in the cost of building another 3w3t barracks and power plant/nuke, it's going to end up pretty much the same way.

It's time to face the music, buddy: The bottler is overpriced garbage. Plain and simple.

... And don't even get me started on the Garden or Water Purifier.

You keep telling yourself that. For the rest of us, the math speaks for itself.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:55 pm

I don't need you to dictate your interpretation of how you think this game works. It's simple maths that you clearly don't possess, yet. Go to school, finish your homework and then we talk.

I think my use of the word "revenue" is http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/revenue.asp. Didn't they taught you the basics of investment at pre-school?

Now, stop harrassing me with walls of text containing utter nonsense. You make a fool out of yourself.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:53 pm

Ah yes, don't bother to make a counter argument. That might actually require effort.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:45 pm

I would if I didn't have to prove myself against a rude bully who has formed his own interpretation of how he thinks that everyone should play the game. It is useless to come up with arguments against someone who immediatly stepped into the argument with his strong, biased and outspoken opinion and who demands that his own claims are fact (whilst they are mathmatically wrong, even).

I bet you are a real fun at parties.

» Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:59 pm

Ok, too much bickering and tit for tat flaming in this thread. It's closed. Please read the rules about flaming.