Yeah, you always here people saying "It should not have this or that because it's an RPG". Now, I may or may not agree depending on context, but that's not important for this discussion. You always get people saying "But all an RPG is is a game in which you fulfill a role (basically any game)". I think either we need a new term, or for people to realise what people mean. I'm fairly certain, and tell me if I'm wrong, but when we say "It's an RPG", what we generally mean is:

"It's primarily an open-world fantasy action-adventure oriented first-person stat based role playing game (like pretty much the only series in this category)".

So yeah. Should we come up with something else to say instead of RPG?

Sandbox RPG?

Yeah. We should say "Elder Scrolls game".

I think it's extremely limiting to speak in terms of genre, and from some of the interviews it seems the developers share my point of view.
There's no need to categorize all the time.

I find RPG is one of the worst defined genres out there, along with "pop".

You talking pop music, cans of carbonated flavored beverages or when things burst due to pressure?

Definitely. Every game in existence has "RPG-elements" these days, and the label "RPG" covers such wide ground... Everything from Final Fantasy to Darklands to Vampire the Masquerade.
The definition is as broad as the sky.

Nope, you're describing a first person computer-RPG. How would Baldur's Gate fit into your definition?

For me, an RPG is indeed open ended, but played with dice (sometimes hurled at friends), coffee, friends, ribbing, silly accents, cake eating contests, slaps 'longside the head, a social event, etc.

It can have many rules, but genreally common sense dictates. Imagination is key since the world and actions are in your mind.

I do not drive my character through a world with limited options; rather, I become the character where there are many many options (like jumping out of an airplane in a blizzard in Texas 30 miles from where the rest of your party landed "just because" or passinga note to the GM saying that I pickpocket the figher in my own party - hard to do with a single player game)

While there are published definitions of "RPG", I feel that the definition is really subjective and based on one's own history.

"RPG" meant something back when everything was tabletop. it doesn't anymore. ed rumblyguts is right it means tabletop SILLY ME.

RPG Codex had a fairly decent list of RPG "sub-types" that i can't find right now but even that wasn't as ENVELOPING as it could be.

Yes, but stupid people knows;

Pop = Radio
RPG = boring

I'm looking forward to the [censored]storm of "not an RPG" and "dumbed down" threads once Skyrim is released. I've been stocking on [censored] umberellas just for that purpose ^_^

I know! The board needs a smily eating popcorn...the theatrics will be interesting.

Oh, what to add....
RPG's on a computer are nothing but a computer game..something to beat. It's not what I consider an RPG

I know what you mean bro. I need a mid evil game like oblivion(that is like fallout) that isn't like oblivion (Blech have you seen their faces) and that boring forest.

A computer role-playing game is a game utilising player-driven development of a persistent character or characters, defined through statistics, via making consequential choices.
This definition still stands mostly unchallenged. It does not refer to all games with RP aspects, mind you. Mix and match those all you want, but call them elements and don't attempt to make them your only selling point.

The term is fine. Regardless of how vague it may be, it still manages to fulfill its role as a game classification with flying colors. I don't see games going mislabeled or confusion among gamers as to how Final Fantasy and The Elder Scrolls can both be RPGs. It's generally understood that they're just different types of RPGs, thanks in part to the numerous sub-genres. In fact, the only time I see problems with the system is when someone starts arguing semantics or tries to assert their opinions on what the "correct" definition is.

I will say the opposite of what you said most. I found the term pretty well defined by itself. These are the consequences of these definitions which are poorly understood most time.
In order to be playing a role, we need to simulate coherently a universe, a world. For this, there is a need to create an accurate definition of the characters and their interactions with the world. Else, the player will get 'disconnected' from the reality. It can be on computer or on paper. The main important fact is the coherency of the universe in order for the player to be immersed in his role.

When I say RPG I mean

"Game where you play a person who doesn't HAVE to be customizable but can be, does not HAVE to be sandbox but can be, the gameplay depends more on how a player spends their skill points or whatever (which are gained from leveling up by killing enemies or completing missions/objectives) on a wide variety of skills, rather than the player's skill. The player must also be able to influence the outcome of the game world with their actions throughout the game."

We could start saying that, only it's a bit of a [censored] to remember.

RPG works, and if in the context of the conversation RPG is too vague and/or broad a classification, use something else or narrow it down a bit ("open-world RPG" etc). Easy.

:foodndrink: This is what pops up in my head when I think RPG. Pen and paper is the way to go when you want to role play.

Basically this. Although, there are exceptions (as always) but generally I look for the ability to level up and customize skills in an RPG. Class/race/traits can surely put me into a set category where I'll play the game (Read: Kill the baddies) a specific way, but so long as I'm able to choose I can make plenty of roles for playing my game.

EDIT: Whether the game be on my PC (Or any other video game platform) or pen and paper, the system I used to define the genre is still there, so I call it a RPG. I'm happy with that title and what it includes, me thinks. Wouldn't want it any other way.

RPG will remain a general term because it should only be used as that. In what conversation would you need to just say RPG rather than the specific games you are talking about?

If somebody asks you about a game, don't just expect to sum it up in one magical word that will make them understand. Your going to have to explain why it's different from other RPG's if you use that as a reference, or you could just explain all of the features and sit back while they ask "Is it an RPG?". If I were to explain Elder Scrolls I would say "An openworld fantasy RPG". Sure that doesn't sum it up exactly, but I don't see why it would have to. It's not like your on a game show trying to sum up the game in the fewest amount of words possible.

Sure there will be people who say "Skyrim isn't RPG enough", or "This game has too many RPG aspects", but those people are just trying to be absolutists. When you take a genre like cRPG's and you get artists working on all different kinds of games your going to find that they try to redefine their genre every time. So there is never going to be an absolute word for these games, and your just going to be as ridiculous as the "Not RPG enough" people by trying to push that "This isn't X it's Y".

[edit] Also, I'm not trying to bash things having genres. I think they are useful and actually to contribute to making things more structured. It's just that if somebody tells me a game is an RPG I'm not going to glue myself to any features that I think have to be in there. To me the genre tends to be a list, and each RPG maker tends to select an "RPG feature" they would like to implement in their game from that list.

By that definition, it's pretty much the Elder Scrolls, since Fallout 3 and New Vegas don't count because they're not fantasy, and it rules out most cometitors because there aren't really all that many first person RPGs these days, and even fewer if it needs to be open. Other games just don't qualify, and one series isn't really enough to warrant a genre. Though if I wanted to describe specifically what the Elder Scrolls is, I'd call it a (primarily) first person fantasy open world RPG, I'd go into more detail if necessary, of course, but that seems like a good description of the series as a whole.

As to the RPG as a whole, it's pretty hard for me to give a concrete definition of the genre, perhaps because there isn't really one formula all RPGs follow. But they do tend to have some common themes that most RPGs tend to follow. Generally speaking, an RPG must at the very least allow you to develop your character through various skills, stats or abilities that help to define your character, typically, these abilities improve as you gain experience, with your character starting out quite unexperienced but become better as the game progresses, learning new abilities and being able to overcome greater challenges as a result. The exact system for this progression isn't the same for every game, of course, but some means of character progression should be there, and generally, the player has some control over how the character's abilities develop, allowing the player to choose what sort of character to play, within the limit of the game. This does not make every game that has skills automatically an RPG, as there have been some games in other genres which have included light RPG elements, but don't put enough emphasis on them to really be called RPGs. The gameplay of RPGs can vary considerably but they usually have some common aspects, RPGs will typically involve a fair amount of questing and exploration, with players needing to complete a variety of quests to complete the game, often, they will also have side quests which aren't necessary to complete the main story but may give players useful rewards if they are completed. RPGs also typically have a fairly large amount of characters the player can interact with, some of these characters may be enemies, some may be allies, or some may be neutral to the player, sometimes, their relationship with the player will be defined by the player's actions. Some of these NPCs may offer the player quests, or advance quests, whereas some may provide services or just provide dialog that isn't necessary for quests, but may or may not still be interesting to listen to. Also, one thing I expect to see in an RPG is an inventory system, this is important, as aside from skills, the equipment you choose can also define your character. Warriors for example often favor heavy armor and might use swords, axes, maces, or other such weapons, mages traditionally wear robes and carry staves. Of course, depending on the mechanics of the game, the player may have more choice in terms of what kind of equipment a character uses than others. The Elder Scrolls for example generally imposes no limitations on what certain character types can use in terms of equipment, you can wear any armor and carry any weapon you want, you'll just be less effective with it if your not skilled in it. RPGs are also likely to feature elements of choice, how many choices the player gets and how strong the concequences they bring with them are varies between games, as well as the sort of choices the player gets. Often, these are simple choices between good and evil, but some games might take a more complex approach to this and face the player with difficult choices where all options may have their merits, or the best outcome the player can get is merely the lesser evil, it depends a lot on the nature of the game, and also the general feel that the designers are going for. RPGs don't necessarily have to take place in a fantasy setting, though a lot of them are. Some are instead set in a science fiction setting, in which case, the gameplay mechanics may be adjusted to fit the setting, for example, whereas fantasy RPGs typically allow players to use magic of some form, science-fiction RPGs might either replace it with either something similar but derived from pseudo-science rather than supernatural forces, or may just do away with similar mechanics entirely, like Fallout, for example. RPGs also often allow players to customize their character at the start of the game, though some games avoid this, instead giving players a premade character but allowing players to choose how to play said character. While I generally prefer being able to create my own character, but I've also encountered some RPGs that do not have such a feature which I've also enjoyed, so really, it depends on the game.

Of course, like I said, those are just common aspects that tend to be present in RPGs, that is not a strict definition of an RPG, like I said, it would not be easy for me to do so perhaps because the RPG genre is a pretty varied genre of games that are all connected by some common elements, not every genre has that kind of variety. Take first person shooters, for example, all of them, as their name would imply, follow a certain framework, which is that they are played from a first person perspective, and usually, you have to shoot enemies. The settings may differ, though often, they take place in modern times, the reletively recent past, or some point in the future, considering that technically a game where melee combat is the primary focus shouldn't be called a shooter, so games set in the Middle Ages or your typical psuedo-Medieval fantasy setting might not work so well. There may be some differences in terms of gameplay mechanics, the openness of maps (Some games, like Call of Duty, have levels that are for the most part pretty linear, whereas some games have somewhat more open level design.) some may also blend in elements of other genres, such as games that include RPG elements as mentioned above. Such as Biosock (Includes an element of character progression in the form of Plasmids.) and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (It has an inventory system, quests, and while the world isn't completely linear, it's more open than most first person shooters.) But even so, they don't stray from the basic framework of having a first person game focusing on action, and with said action usually be resolved by shooting targets, but the RPG genre is not quite so easy to define. I think one of the problems is that unlike some genres, the name of the genre does not really accurately describe what it's about. Aside from the above mentioned first person shooters, in other genres, the name gives you a pretty good idea of what the game is about. But if you look at the name "role-playing game" literally, it could technically mean any game in which you play as an actual character, as you have to play a role in such games. In Half-Life, you play the role of Gordon Freeman, in a real time strategy game, you play the role of a military commander, usually, in each GTA game, you play the role of whoever the main character is. But it would be foolish to call any game that the label could technically describe an RPG, as then there would be no meaning to using it as the name of a genre. A genre serves as a label that gives us a basic idea of what you can expect from a particular work, be it a game, a movie, a song, a book, or whatever. In video games, genres are usually based on the overall gameplay experience, rather than the actual content of the work like in most forms of non-interactive fiction. If a game is defined as a certain genre, we expect certain common aspects that define said genre from it, it also helps us find games which may offer the sort of experience we're looking for. When I first got Morrowind, I chose it because at the time, I wanted to get a new RPG, and thus, someone was able to recommend an RPG to me. Obviously, genre alone is not enough to judge a game, because just because I like a certain genre as a whole doesn't mean I will like everything in it, but it's something to start with, and the genre loses its meaning when there aren't certain common elements we can expect from a work in said genre. And for those, when it comes to RPGs, the elements I had mentioned before are some of the ones I expect to see.

So to conclude a wall of text post, an RPG is not something I can easily define, but I have some idea of what I aught to expect when a game is called an RPG, and if I play a game, I can probably tell you if I'd call it an RPG or not even if I went into it without knowing what genre it was. Also, there aren't really any particular elements I'd say an RPG shouldn't have so long as they don't detract from what makes it what it is, and really, as with any genre, what a game should have should depend on what the developers are going for with a game, a genre doesn't need to impose strict limitations on what a game can be.

You're wrong.

RPG can be easily defined: If the game is advertise as an RPG, it is an RPG. It might be a crummy RPG, but it's still an RPG.

You know what that means, right? Deus Ex isn't an RPG.

A role playing game that has a internal rules system based on random numbers to simulate success and failure. Contains character building and features linear (levels) or non-linear (skill-based) advancement.

I was actually talking about this over at BGSFANS. RPG games can't be well categorized since their older relative, the Table Top RPG comes in a myriad of different forms. An CRPG is an RPG regardless of what happens in it as long as it adheres to a table top equivalent (like how Temple of Elemental Evil is the perfect CRPG of DnD 3.0, or Bloodlines to World of Darkness) or contains its own rules set that allows for character advancement (Elder Scrolls/Fallout/Fable/ect ect)

I'm not sure what the hell to call it anymore...I consider FO3 and FO: NV to both be RPGs, along with TES, but I also consider Fable, Final Fantasy XIII, and Mass Effect to fall under that category, even though they're all completely different.

I think that the definition that bean screwed-up from the start is "genre". What we think of as genres in gaming aren't genres at all, but formats (FPS, TPS, RTS, RPG, JRPG, ect.). Genres in games should be referred to exactly as they are in literature and film, i.e., fantasy, Sci-Fi, Historical Fiction, ect. Different formats of gameplay and storytelling should have their own set of parameters for naming, as many already do.

Deus Ex advertised? I thought it just sort of popped up somewhere, few people cared or knew, and then 5 years later people actually started noticed it and said 'hey, this game is actually really awesome.'.