I mean, you're asking that on a Skyrim forum... There's no possible way for this not to be biased.

No Dark Souls?

Get out of here.

Well, it seemed to me that there were only four things to do in ME 1 and 2.

1. Walk around in enclosed interiors.

2. Engage in dialouge.

3. Shoot at people (or otherwise engage in combat).

4. Watch cutscenes.


That just doesn't seem like an RPG to me.

The first one was an RPG. In fact it was very JRPG-ish. Two was just too linear though to be called an RPG. There has to be a line drawn somewhere on what is and isn't an RPG (for the good of the genre). ME2's level up and skill system was about as in depth as a 3rd person beat em up like DMC. It lost the RPG title and became an action game. Apparantly ME3 may have multiplayer? LOL, talk about killing a franchise.

To hell with Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls for life! :tes:

Bioware games have always been like that though. Even NWN. Bioware games are exploration through dialog and character relationships but lack in environment exploration, and TES games are pretty much the exact opposite with no character depth AT ALL but tons of world exploration. Theyre just different kinds of RPGs(there are many kinds of RPGs), but theyre still both Role Playing Games.

Er, no they weren't. Sans Jade Empire(which wasn't even a RPG) Bioware games were way more in depth and had more RPG elements than they did after the EA takeover. Look at ME1, then at 2. Look at DAO, then at 2. While Bioware RPGs were always fairly linear, they have gotten to the point where they are just action/adventure games now. Like I said before, Bioware basically made western JRPGs. Now they make action games. I can just imagine what they are doing to KOTOR.

Skyrim, but both are going to be amazing. ME3 details in the new Game-Informer...so awesome.

I think Mass Effect has had it's chance in the sun and will not have the content that Skyrim is looking to deliver - partly because of the length of time Skyrim has been worked on versus the corporate schedule Bioware now have to deliver to - but also because elder scrolls worlds tend to be a character in themself versus the narrow confines of the set pieces Mass Effect has - I'll still want to play ME3 - but I can't see it winning - besides what other game has Harry Partridge done a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9eGtyqz4gY video for?

Now youre just talking out your [censored], Jade Empire was an RPG. Just because its not the kind of RPG you enjoy that doesnt make it not an RPG by default. Theres far more Role exploration and character development in any Bioware game then there is in any TES game, the only difference is TES games lack any character definition... recognition by the game. For example, I could argue that TES games are just dungeon hacks where your character role and development only change the way you act in combat and that those have nothing to do with character/story/plot(because there are no actual choices in those regards).

Its like books and movies. If we were to read the same books we would likely both picture the characters differently even though were given the same base information about them(red hair, black shirt, broken nose etc). But the same story told via film were shown exactly what that character looks like and how they act. That doesnt make the book less of a story because it doesnt define things as much as the movie does, and it doesnt make the movie less enjoyable(though thats personal preference) because it doesnt give you more freedom of exploration. Theyre still both stories, and some people like one or the other more.

Edit2: Also, I generally enjoy reading books far more than I do watching movies. Except for Lord of the Rings, which I think are the most boring books Ive ever read and reading them( I still havnt been able to get passed the second book) is more of a chore than an enjoyable experience. But I loved the movies and I also enjoy playing LotRO.

EDIT: Lets just be clear though, I absolutely hated Dragon Age 2 and am vastly disappointed in Bioware for mucking the franchise they said they wanted to keep old school.

A thousand pointless choices does not equal an RPG. Like I said, now for the third time. Bioware made linear JRPG type RPGs, now they make linear action games with dialogue systems. Just because it has an interactive story doesnt make it an RPG. I hear the same stuff over and over, people that must have started playing RPGs within the last couple years and they think that ME is more of an RPG than TES because it has some pointless choices in it. I'm not saying you have to be like TES to baean RPG, Im just saying that Bioware's efforts are now too linear and watered down to be called an RPG, or Western RPG, or even action RPG. They are now Action games with a few RPG like elements. ME2 was about as much an RPG as a choose your own adventure book is an RPG book.

Preference? Yes.
SKYYYYYYRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIM!!!!

I'm opening the door,
Please step outside if you know what's good for you.

DON'T SAY THAT!!!

We're all thinking it, but please, don't jinx it!

Damnit Bioware!

to be fair, they said they are bringing back alot more RPG elements for ME3.

IMO it was ruined once they announced it was a MMO.

Then what makes an RPG, by your definition?

This is because in TES you actually have to roleplay, as in imagine what your character is thinking, his background, etc. :rolleyes:

So youd argue that an RPG is a game that just puts you in an open sandbox? I dont know I still see something like KOTOR as a sandbox of dialog and story rather than a sandbox environment, just different styles of sandboxes.

You also need to roleplay in Mass Effect 2.

SWTOR isn't KOTOR 3, but I think Bioware might try to pull that on us. Ugghhh, the rage I feel towards Bioware is undescribable! I'm not getting ME3, and will be the first game of theirs that I haven't bought because I think it'll be bad. I thought ME2 was simply a fluke. And then we got DA2............

I'm almost afraid to hear about its release. The way Bioware's been making games lately..........maybe it's best they don't touch it for a while.........maybe ever.

Well there has to be a line drawn somewhere. There are a lot of different kind of RPGs. WRPGs, JRPGs, ERPGs, strategy RPGs, Fried RPGs, Sauteed RPGs, RPG soup, RPG burger, RPG kibo-..er, Its a mixture of stats, story progression, customization and role playing. All role playing means is to act like someones else. Its meant that since before video games. We all know what RPGs usually have and dont. Some of the things I listed were in ME2, but there has to be a line drawn. The gameplay mechanics in ME2 for example, were no deeper than a 3rd person action game. Are we going to call them RPGs now? GTA SA had a lot of these themes and things in it, are we gong to call it an RPG now? There has to be a line, so our precious RPGs are not ruined and made into linear action games because shooter fans 'think' thats what an RPG is. Im no definer of RPGs, but I can tell what is and isn't an RPG. Bioware doesnt make RPGs to me anymore. DA2 was more in depth than ME2 though,but not by a lot.

How do you need to roleplay in Mass Effect 2? You just pick "Sole Survivor", "War Hero", and you pick "Earth-born", "Ship raised", etc.

Roleplaying has never been that big a part of Biowares games, but compare ME and KOTOR to ME2 and DA2. The amount of openess has been reduced dramatically, and DA2 is all based in ONE DAMN CITY! I'm still mad about that.........anyways....

The exploration level in Bioware games is going down. The amount of customization is going down. The leveling system if far less complex. Everything that made Bioware games RPGs is gone. They're becoming action games with interactive stories.

O.o even if you dont consider ME2 to be an RPG, its still one of the best games to come out in the last few years.

As for TOR, yeh. Its an MMORPG, its still an RPG but needs to be looked at as an MMO(like so many of you seem to look at ME as more an action game than an RPG).

I loved ME. But ME2? Ehhh, not so much.
I loved DA:O! But DA2? Absolutely not.

Their games are still "good" but they aren't amazing. They aren't these mind blowing games that I spend days upon days playing, and can go back to after 7 years.