Are there any rules for magic in the TES universe? On what magic can do and what it does? Or is it just the mystical flow from aetherius that can do things physically impossible on Nirn?

Mundus is the plane or realm of existence that encompasses Nirn, its moons, and attendant Aedric planets. For all intents and purposes Mundus refers to these heavenly bodies alone, as they themselves float in Oblivion. The Mundus is a collaborative construct created by many divine beings. It was first conceptualised by Lorkhan, who then convinced other et'Ada (except the Padomay-aligned et'Ada, i.e., the Daedra) to assist him in its construction. Of these et'Ada, Magnus became the Architect, who drew up the plans for Mundus.

Some of the et'Ada gave parts of themselves entirely to the creation of Mundus. These became the eight planets of Mundus (not including Nirn); they are also identified as the Eight Divines, or Aedra. Some Aedra gave themselves completely to their creation, and became the Earthbones that form the substance and life of the final planet: Nirn (a.k.a. The Arena). Soon after the planets had formed, Magnus became disgusted at what Mundus was, and so left for Aetherius, his passage ripping a hole in Oblivion (the realm of Daedra that surrounds Mundus and covers it from Aetherius). This rip is viewed as the sun, and is responsible for much of Mundus' magical energy. Others soon followed after Magnus; these et'Ada left smaller holes, which became the stars. Some et'Ada did not manage to escape or chose to stay on Nirn as spirits. These et'Ada changed into the Earthbones (Ehlnofey) or simply wasted away into nothingness.

Because of Lorkhan's trickery of the other et'Ada, the Aedra met at Direnni Tower (a.k.a. the Adamantine Tower or the Ur-Tower) to discuss the punishment of Lorkhan. Trinimac then ripped the Trickster's heart from his chest and fired it into the sea with his bow. Its impact rent the earth and created a mighty volcano, now known as Red Mountain. The creation of the landmass that is modern Vvardenfell can be traced to this event. Because Lorkhan's Heart remained on Tamriel, it impregnated Nirn with his spirit (according to The Lunar Lorkhan : "a reasonable amount of his selfishness"), while his rotting corpse remained floating above the new planet as the two moons.

There isn't a whole lot on how magic works, or on what it can or cannot do, in TES. There's no real statement of things that magic isn't capable of doing. Here's pretty much the extent of the rules behind magic:

-It can do anything that appears in the games, or in in-game books
-Magicka comes from Aetherius through the sun and stars
-The recent novel, and a couple in-game books, suggests that casting a spell doesn't involve speaking an incantation or making hand gestures, but simply achieving a certain focus and state of mind to bring the spell about.

That's pretty much it.

Magic was described to me as limitless, only bound by what the caster him or herself is capable of causing. Which means that magic fulfills perfectly the "Bad-ass credo:"

"We kick logic out and make the impossible possible!"

That's a rather immature view of magic. Kicking out the logic as you call it leaves you with the deus ex machinas so horribly abused in many kettle boiler plays, books or games. The essence here is still telling a good story. - arguably.

Now I quoted this in ahttp://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1060305about magic, but it bears repeating.



It's a little late so I'll leave out proper explanation for now. I should be fairly obvious anyway.

Well, think about it though. I don't remember the book in question, but one of the in-game books made a whole big thing about how the whole trick for Alteration magic is to completely suspend logic and replace it with your own in order to do things that are not possible, such as, in the case of the particular story, breathing water? And isn't that simply a longer way of saying what I already said?

The laws of thermodynamics seem to be as much apart of magic in Nirn as the real world, just taken slightly differently.

There's is additive magic which summons evil chickens. And subtractive magic which kicks little girls in the face.

So then why have a spell inscribed in your grimoire? Aren't you reading something when you're casting the spell? Bethesda threw out the grimoire in MW and OB but in Daggerfall there was one. They should bring it back I think.



You mean http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/brewater.shtml?



Proweler, are you implying that magic can only change but not create? You're creating fire when you cast a fireball, though.

*shrugs* it could be that spellbooks don't contain magic incantations, but rather detailed descriptions of mental images and the like, that can bring about spell effects


Are you? Perhaps a fireball spell simply focuses ambient heat in the air into a small point, until it ignites, rather than creating fire out of nothing. The mechanics of a lot of spells aren't really detailed, and could be interpreted a number of different ways.

No, I believe magic can create as well as change. This is fantasy, not science fiction.

I find that magic can only change, not create. And by change, not create, I really mean by that you cannot create something out of nothing, or else TES would be a lot more messed up. With magic, you are changing potential into something more useful.

If something could be created out of nothing, you'd have random things and events pop out of no where. The world would be a heck of a lot more spontaneous.

So how would Nirn be more messed up if you created from nothing? Didn't Azure create the Khajiit race? Hmm, but now that I think about it, all creation came from the gods giving parts of themselves. But the et'Ada came from the blood spilt from the interplay of Anu and Padomay. So who created them? Well I guess the godhead, huh? And who created the godhead?

And in my own opinion, I believe that all spells have some form of incantation or words to say. Eventually, the caster gets good enough at it to where they can just think it and it occurs.

The magick has to be focused/used in order to make something happen. If its being focused it has to be being focused by somebody. If its being focused by somebody then its not random or out of nowhere...

That's what I was getting at, you're changing something, not making it appear out of nothing. This of course places magic as pure potential, which needs to be used and manipulated in order to get the desired change and properties.


Azura didn't create the khajiit, she changed them from elves to khajiit, or at least that's what the myths say.

As for where the godhead came from, I point to you the RL question how was the universe created? Or, if I remember correctly, the godhead is the dreamer who is still asleep.

No, she changed elves into Khajiit.

My post didn't support that you're changing something in any way, nor did it support that you can make things appear out of nothing.

Your point was that being able to create something out of nothing would be random - that's what I refuted, it wouldn't be random or 'messed up' because somebody has to be the one making it happen either way, thereby making it not random. My post had nothing to do with whether or not magick just changes things.

Alright, slight misunderstanding.

Understandable, it was abit of a side issue... :shrug:

I blame the whiskey. The delicious, delicious whiskey.

So you can create nothing from something, is what you're getting at, right? Because the laws of the Mundus were "created" by the et'Ada giving themselves to its creation. So magic is just the potential to cause change?

EDIT: I'm watching Sleeping Beauty and I saw that Maleficent didn't once create something. Everything she was doing was a "change" in some way or another. hahaha god, now I'm gonna watch every single film that ever has magic and think, yep that's changing such n such or sompfin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQsOlcZ3RiM&feature=related

No, you cannot create nothing from something; primarily because to "create nothing" is a contradiction in terms.

Also, creating laws is not the same as creating an object.

http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/magnus_invisible.shtml

Annihilation?

Annihilation is just destroying something's form. Its not "making nothing". Even wiping something out of existence by magic wouldn't be "making nothing", it would just be removing a "something". To "make nothing" would entail something like creating a void, but even in that case you're not using one object and turning it into a void.

:turtle:

I know, I made a typo and didn't proof read my post. oopsy.
Exactly how is creating laws not the same as creating objects?