While looking forward to Fallour 4, Is it prudent to release it without user mod support?

What is your opinion?

Do you believe Bethesda should wait untill user mod support is ready?

Or do you believe that it should be "perhaps rushed", out before user mod support is ready?

Please note the enphasis on "perhaps rushed" as that is a matter of opinoin, there is no right or wrong opinion, only opinions

since the main purpose of Fallout 4 is to be a entertaining game, not a platform for mods I do not see how launching it without mod capacity to be "rushing" it

How would this be different than previous Bethesda games? None of them had mod tools out of box, either. (I'm making the assumption this what the OP means when he says, "mod support"). All interviews and info so far has fully indicated there mod support (capability) is built in already. Now if this some indication that CONSOLE mods will come later than the planned PC mods, that's a completely different issue (that has more to do HOW mods for consoles get distributed).

My opinion is that not having the mod tools ready is EXACTLY what can wait and should have NO effect on the game itself being "rushed".

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Mod tools aren't immediately needed (unless you want to get to bug fixing as quick as possible).

I want my time with the vanilla game before I figure out what I'd wanna change

Again, if you feel mod support should be there on release of the game, then you may believe it to be rushed out, that is why i wrote the following, the question its self is unbias in intension, mearly a means of finding gamers opinions on this descision.

"Please note the enphasis on "perhaps rushed" as that is a matter of opinoin, there is no right or wrong opinion, only opinions"

...and I did just that, stated my opinion.

I think they learned from the 11/11/11 debacle, seeing that it was largely feature-locked by the time they announced it.

This. Gotta play the game first, to see what you'd want to mod.

re: "rushing" as related to mod tools.

Honestly, I see it the other way - taking their time in the last couple months til release to squash bugs, instead of packaging up the mod tools = NOT rushing. Get the game out, and be ready for the influx of new bug reports that'll come from millions playing the game on many platforms, before putting the finishing touches on the new GECK.

Personaly i am inclined to agree with you, to state my own opinion.

They wouldn't have announced the game if they didn't feel it was time, it's not like we knew anything about it before last month.

As for mod support coming later, that's perfectly fine and understandable. They want people to actually play the game for a few months rather than start changing and re-working things out of the box.

OP implies the game is "possibly rushed" because mod tools will be delayed and then agrees with a poster that points out WHY it's not rushed? OP, You keep talking about "opinions" but have done nothing but dance around stating your own.

My opinion is i think they should absolutely keep it vanilla for now, so you can play the vanilla game first and then mod the sh.. out of it later on, they should do it like all the other times they have released something and as other vendors have done, and release a creation kit for modding later on, people will still find temporary ways of modding the game no matter what just look at The Witcher 3, but i believe the idea of vanilla for the first period of time, then maybe 4-8 months later on release a creation kit for modding, and you have a viable game to mod and replay with new features or armors you wanted to try out.

And the reason for the wait period not everyone is a die-hard fan and will wait until people give feedback on it or it comes on sale, not everyone can spend the amount of money some of us do on games.

So no need to delay it to add a tool for modding.

I understand that there will be some people (eg, me ) who would very much like the modding tools to be available from the start - even if only to avoid the problems of third-party tools cropping up based on incomplete knowledge of the file structures, and resulting in mods that corrupt savegames (I'm looking at you, TESSnip ).

And there's just some people who want to mod more than play .

However, getting the mod tools out will not be a trivial piece of work, and the people who'd have to do it are probably the people who are most heavily stressed fixing bugs and getting the master discs prepared, and may be very busy immediately post launch getting critical engine and crash bugs fixed that crop up once the game's out-in-the-wild.

Waiting makes good sense, as frustrating as it may be to a few.

I welcome the fact that they want to finish the game (squash bugs) before working on the creation engine. Todd has mentioned that they have not even started on it yet because they wanted to polish the game first. How could that possibly be taken negatively lol

You appear to be familiar only with Skyrim. All of Bethesda's moddable games have had mod tools out of the box.....except Skyrim. Morrowind's Construction Set was right there on the install disc. They even included the game's art files on a second disc for ease-of-use in modding. And Oblivion's Construction Set was actually released two days before the game itself.

Well, that's slated to release in January with the GECK. I feel this is good, because that two month gap allows players and mod devs to really play the game, and see whats's there already, what they want to improve upon or add, and then make the decision and get to work, with available assets and a good head for what players may want from feedback given between November and January.

Given how much more complex modding has become, and how widespread it's becoming (first the Steam Workshop, now freaking consoles), it's probably better for Bethesda to spend more time getting the mod tools (and mod infrastructure) ready after the game drops. Fro my understanding, their timeline is to work on the game itself until release, then shift focus to getting the mod tools ready, and then shift to getting mods to work on consoles.

Something tells me that since this is the first time mods have appeared on consoles at such a large scale, it's going to be awkward and messy. The first time always is.

there IS NO releasing without user mod support.

the whole game engine is plugin based, so you'll always be able to add your custum esp plugin right away.

what they CAN release without is modding _tools_ (= geck) at start, and this is what likely will happen.

...and, as they don't tire to explain, that "modding toolkit" is their OWN development tool for their games. they USE THAT to MAKE the game, so they CAN'T make it AFTER the game

I'm not sure I would say large scale there will be lots of mods that will be PC only.

I guess that depends. I'm getting it PC because the console wars left me in the dirt, but the PC has the benefit of mods being a largely independent operation. Whereas on Console, the mods will more than likely need to be approved by the online service of the console.

Or...Consoles will get a very different GECK than PC. One that is more attuned to the console's capabilities without risking innapropriate content by the console services rules and standards slipping through.

Whereas steam has their Workshop, this could be the beginning of the Console workshop. Wholly independant from console and PC.

Would this mean that mod devs would need to make two different versions of mods? Good question. We don't know.

All depends on how this is going to play out. I could very well be talking out my ass.

The game should really stand on its own merits, rather than as a template for mods. I've quite happily spent hundreds of hours in F3 and FNV without the ability to use mods, the lack of mod support in no way means that the game has been rushed in any way, shape or form.

I don't believe there will be a GECK specifically for consoles. I'll bet mods that push the GPU like texture ones won't be on console, nor will nudity, or setting children to non-essential. I will also guess consoles will have a limit of how many can be running as well. I could be talking with my ass as well lol.

Well, that and all sorts of third-party middleware they can't legally give us, which they use for animation and artwork. You're right that it's their own in-game editor; I think the reason they didn't include the Creation Kit with Skyrim on release is that they wanted to launch it at the same time as the Steam Workshop went live, which does take time to set up. And, the Creation Kit we get isn't an exact copy of what they use, although I couldn't say how close it is.