Then don't play with save game cheating. Its not like I'm for it.

TES is a game that can be for the casual gamer and the hardcoe. You're thinking is to one sided on this. Think of the people who just want to pick up and play for a while, and relax. I know where you guys are coming from, but you have to try and see where my side is coming from. I like playing hardcoe games, but other times I dont. TES save system is set up so that you can be both. Restricting it to only be hardcoe is not a smart move, and is unfair to one side of the fan spectrum.



Explain how it is impossible to me in extreme detail, because I find what you are saying to be relativly easy if you wished to play that way.

At least you will admit that.

Yeah. Im shocked by the reactions. :facepalm:

I imagined there'd be many many more who would feel the same way we do about this problem with save abuse. I'm kinda happy you made this thread instead of me, because I would feel depressed right now had I gotten all these negative reactions to my (excellent) ideas. :cold:

Well then I feel your pain, Bethesda should have it optional though, but because the OP started out by saying "For everyone" and then started swinging insults at everyone that did not agree saying they wanted their "hands held" I′ve taken that mentality to argue against. Perhaps some kind modder will make such a saving system if it is possible and if Bethesda does not include the option of choosing different saving methods.

TES is not a game, it's a game series. And Arena and Daggerfall are pretty hardcoe games by today's standards, Morrowind is a bit, but not that much.

I can agree to some versatility, but not everything in the game should be optional. The point of RPG adventuring games is that they are an adventure, a story, and a challenge; they have their own laws, rules, and quirks. If everything is optional then it's not much of world is it? It's more like s sandbox/make-your-own-adventure game. Not necessarily arguing for or against quicksave; but keep in mind that some aspects of the game o need to be written in stone.

I'm sorry, I won't do this simply because I haven't the time and don't feel like repeating myself.

But in summary, having the very option of over-saving in the first place is detrimental and detracts from the gravity of what my character does, and thus takes away from the thrill of the game. I don't want to over save, and I don't even want that option. "Then don't do it", you say, but it's not that simple. You see some of us actually want to push ourselves when playing. I suppose that it is this "pushing yourself" which characterized hardcoe gameplay. And it is also this pushing oneself where the restrictions are necessary. You must also understand that every person's comfort zone is different in terms of pushing themselves, so the limit itself is somewhat arbitrary, but it must exist nonetheless. It is also this exertion which leads to the temptation of "cheating" in some manner, which would also be negative.

That being said, I believe that people would be thankful for this option eventually, even if not right away, because the higher restriction allows for room for one's personal expansion of their limits.

You can't reload if you haven't saved, so the option does not exist, you can save, but than you already lost. The minute you save, you acknowledge that you aren't hardcoe.



If you need to be forced, than how can you call yourself hardcoe? Most people can do most things if forced.



You're projecting your own lack of will unto others. So a soldier willfully accepting a mission with tough conditions is less hardcoe than the soldier that is forced against his will?



But quitting is accepting defeat, and acknowledging that you aren't hardcoe. How are you gonna separate the hardcoe from the flock, if those that aren't hardcoe can't quit?

I'll just use this one....

I don't see anything wrong with either style :shrug:

I detest waypoint or set save points, feel that I should be able to save when I want for the exact reasons the OP stated.

It's like opera for me; I can appreciate the more challenging style of play, but it ain't my cup o tea. Truthfully, I probably wouldn't buy the game if it had limited saves.

I want the option to save my games at intervals I specify.
I want the option to have that option as well.
I also want the option to have the option to have that option.
It would also be nice to have the option of having the option, to have the option, to optionally save my games.
Additionally I would like to have it be optional for me to have the option of having the option to have an option available for me to select the option of saving my games when I want.



hardcoe mode saving is cool and all, but Ultra hardcoe Mode saving is much better and you guys just don't know how much you want to play it.

- No saves. There is no save button IRL.
- Dead is dead, obligatory.
- Crashes are just the way the game tells you your character had a heart attack and died.

hardcoe LIVING UP IN HERE.

Ya ya, point taken. Its a series, but its a series that is now trying to be for both casual and hardcoe gamers.

Setting death in stone would be a turn off for many casual gamers. One slip up, and they could lose a character that they had put a lot of their time into. That's a turn off for a casual gamer, because what would be the point of what they were doing for the past few hours? Saves here or there every hour or so would hurt them as well, because now what happens when you have to go to work but you still have to wait 15 for the next save time?

The system we have now may not be perfect and allow cheating, but its better than the one sugested based singly on the fact that it is user friendly. What's the point of complaing about having your hand held, and then ask for a hardcoe-saving button in the menu to hold your hand instead?



Well, guess what you're saying is just going to fly right over my head then.

Its not like I don't see where you're coming from. I can see why you want this. I just don't see how you can't hold yourself to your own playstyle, instead of having the game hold your hand in order for you to play your playstyle.

All of this, including your definition of hardcoe, is quite subjective. I am not projecting my lack of will unto others- it is human nature to have finite willpower, though we all have different limits. Many of you are imagining an idealistic state, where we all have 100 willpower stats, which is certainly not the case.

To address your soldier anologue, yes, the Soldier who is forced into his mission will most likely view his actions as more "hardcoe" from his perspective (the perspective that matters, in this case), seeing as the soldier who willfully accepts his mission through choice views his mission as something which he can overcome. Don't see how you could miss that.

If you want to push yourself, than go ahead and push yourself, because what your advocating is that the game should be the one to push you, because you can't do it yourself.

Clearly saving should happen automatically very often without being able to load any outdated savegames through normal means (although the old savegame files might be stored in some folder in case they are required for bugfixing by the user).

Of course, the gameplay should be more forgiving to allow for such a system. Retreat and surrender should often be options, although not without facing serious consequences. Perhaps a chance of being knocked out instead of dying would also help.

Good point. Instead of pushing yourself, perhaps I should have said "having yourself pushed" - because you can always have yourself pushed much harder than you can push yourself

Of course default would be saving without restrictions, like it always have.

We're basically just asking for 2 things here:
1. When starting a new game (character), to have the option to decide your save conditions you wish to play the game with.
2. Get some sympathy and understanding towards our feelings. See, I'm still firmly convinced that cheater who is in me, is in many others too, and Im convinced that many feel they "abuse" the save system, and it doesn't fel truly fulfilling and satisfying. I think it's just that they sort of lie to themselves, at least sometimes. At least I do. I always make up these crazy justifications and excuses in my head whenever I releoad after having been caught stealing or after been slain by a mob I knew was too strong for me. Yes I actually sort of lie to myself and tell myself that the game cheated, not me. Or that I had a good reason to reload, "I'm a bit tired and out of focus today, so it was morally okay to reload that part, right?". Sounds crazy? Yes but I don't think it's just me. My basic nature is 100% against cheating, a heroic guy who likes tough challenges, but at the same time there lives a cheating bastard inside me who always wants to take the easy option.

And it's pretty obvious that many people should be able to understand the correlation between high risk and excitement, while low(no) risk is correlated with near apathy and blandness.

But what′s so wrong with it being optional ? You′ve been going around here telling how everyone should have that kind of a save and how everyone who does not agree needs their "hands held". You said it in the first post that it should be for everyone and I have not noticed yet any mention of it being optional from you.

So question is, if you think it should be like that for those with under 100 in their willpower stat, what is so wrong with giving those with 100 willpower the option to choose when they get to save ?

This is barely hyperbolic, and mostly true. I would only disagree with the crashing heart attack

Very well said. Covered many things I left out - that option would be exactly what I want. Any maybe even add is some extra unobtainable items that you can only get in hardcoe mode?

1. You say you don't want your hand held by being able to save whenver when playing, so you want a button that gets rid of that option to hold your hand instead?
2. I do have sympathy, I get what you're saying. But for the love of the gumdrops and icecream, think about what you're asking. You'll want it so you have the option at the beginning, so you'll never be able to change it as you go on thinking that will hold you to it. 100 hours later you're pissed off and driving yourself crazy because you can't save, and because of the auto save you're stuck at the bottom of a dragon filled cave with 1 health and no potions. Ya you can just wait so you're health comes back, but then what. On you're tenth try you actually kill all but one of the dragons with your sword and pure luck, but the last one gets you, forcing you back down to where you just were. The cheater in you smacks you in the face, going "nananana I told you so" all the way home.

See what I'm trying to say here? With the current system, this can still happen, but at least you had the option to save before the cave instead of autosaving at the bottom.

It's almost like you don't understand the basic idea, or at least one basic aspect of what a game, in the universal sense, is. (it's not just you, seems it's nearly everyone who replied).

It's not me who is supposed to put these boundaries and conditions. It's the game that should do it! That's why we play games!

It's the game who should set up certain rules and boundaries, and I as a player take up the challenge. It's very elementary. A very elementary aspect of games, universally and historically.

We just want a harder game. And we don't even exclude anyone, because a modern computer game can easily be customizable to suit everybody, thus you have default mode for the majority and a hardcoe mode for the minority. Everyone wins.

I'm know it's been said, but my biggest complaint to restricting save frequency is that I want to get in and get out of the game whenever I feel like it.

It's not a cheat, it's an exploit. The system is in place, and the players simply use it incorrectly.

That being said, there's no "incorrect" way to play a TES game - it's part of their design philosophy, is it not? If you don't want to be a save [censored], don't be a save [censored]. It's as easy as that.

Of course. :hubbahubba: Who dares wins.

wait a second there is a thing called console command, and your more upset about people saving there games???????????

Decent. But I'm talkin' real hardcoe. When the Worm King finally killed me, I took my game disc to the back yard and shot it repeatedly with my Colt 45. Then I chopped my balls off.

LIKE A BOSS.