Save game "cheating" and how to solve it : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:17 pm

Interesting topic.

It would be kind of dumb if they imposed something like this on everyone, but I think an option of this sort that you can toggle might be interesting.

They do have a toggle. It's called "don't [censored] save if you don't want to".

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:09 am

Are you kidding OP? Just play the game how YOU want to play. Why change the game for everyone? I can't see how this could possibly annoy you since you are never forced to save in TES. When and where to save is completely up to you. So how does this even affect you at all? Especially to want to change it for the thousands of other people playing the game.

Yes I want flying enemies with ranged attack in the game, it's important for me. Yes it will ruin the game for melee only characters but why should I care.
Some other high level enemies might have chameleon 100%, or spell reflection 100%.
This way you has to know multiple ways to fight, and know some basic magic, all my characters do.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:29 am

I know this may be a bit far fetched and perhaps a little unconventional, but I only reload a saved game if I die or the game glitches.
Yes, it is a self-imposed rule, which means I must exert a certain level of self-control. This is not for everyone and should only be
attempted with strict safety guidelines in place. Willpower, when stretched to it's limits has been know to cause sudden and
irreversible......... :slap:

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:37 am

Limiting saves, checkpoints, etc, are nothing more than lazy ways to implement an artificial sense of challenge and thrill. Do you know why Oblivion's trolls (not internet trolls) terrify me? Why Oblivion's zombies give me the creeps, even though I generally find zombies funny? Is it because I frequently forget to save my game, meaning I'm usually at risk of dying and getting set way back? No! It's because Bethesda did a legitimately good job at making these creatures scary and challenging. The troll, with its speed and regenerating health. The zombie, moaning and limping everywhere (but still being relatively quick). Being dismembered by one of these fiends (or any fiends) is never a pleasant experience, regardless of whether my last save was from two seconds or two days ago. Because of that, I will try my best to stay alive during such encounters, even if there is no actual risk involved. If I get killed, that'll svck all on its own. But if getting killed means I also lose significant progress, well, that's just straight obnoxious.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:15 am

I do Not like this Sam I Am, I do Not like Timed Saves or Ham! :toughninja:

With a single player game, there is 0% harm between players if one person cheats with saves OR the console (which timed saves wouldn't solve). Thus there is no reason to worry about it, if a player wants to save every 10 seconds and re-load to overcome speech challenges - so what?

The point of a video game is that the player Have Fun for many hours, and comes back for more game after game. Limited saves is not Fun, it doesn't improve the enjoyment of the game for anyone and only causes problems for players who like to save alot.

I would vote "Hell No", but you didn't add that option.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:56 am

While this idea is without a doubt terrible if forced on us and is probably a waste of Bethesda's time to code in themselves as an option, (get some self control), the concept behind it is interesting, I think I might actually do a playthrough in this manner for an outlaw character.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:43 am

I have this to say sorry I skipped over like 6 pages Ive been busy anyway what was I saying oh I got it...
I like being able to have as many saves as I want and be able to save most anywhere I think bethesda does good with this in that elderscrolls and fallout are games of such large scale that limiting the number of saves you could have and where you could use them would drive many people away not to mention for me at least I like to test the angles and do all side quests/ find and plunder all places before I beat the game usually and that my dear friends takes alot of saves now the problem I do have is even if you have only 7 saves currently but you have saved over say 300 times your saves now list in the 300's which I find annoying I would rather have it reflect my current total vs the cumulative playthrough total including those I've long since deleted or overwritten.

The main thing I say is If you wanna play the game without saves use a memory card or unplug your harddrive or fill it till you got like 1 mb or something but most people will agree that part of the core fun with the game is having multiple saves lol make a save early on come back after a year of leveling and doing stuff whether in fallout or oblivion or whatever and look at how small and insignificant you were starting out then think at all the saves it took to get to where you are now...."overwhelming isn't it" now think if you only had say 3 saves period for whole of the game and dont forget if you freeze it can set you back ALONG WAYS.

I've rambled my point to you all sufficiently enough I believe now then back to my other games....

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:34 am

Yes, but is the having the option itself optional ? No...

I never got to choose whether I wanted X option, this option was forced upon me

ALMOST! ..everything in TES is optional. ALMOST!

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:47 am

My problem isn't constantly saving for any reason. My problem is that I get involved in the game and forget to make saves. I'll end up adding hours to my play time by having to retrace my steps. More than once some times.

How is it cheating to have a save close to a difficult section of game? I sure ain't gonna turn down the difficulty, even if dying five or six times is the price.

Boy would I hate to have to play an hours worth of stuff before getting to the section causing me trouble.

If you reload every time you fail to pick a lock you are adding wasted effort to your game not cheating. It's easier to just get the game for the computer and use the console to open the damned things. Hell, pretend you found the skeleton key if you must.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:41 am

I hate saving limitations. Specially in an RPG like this.
I want to be able to save at all times (I'm a quicksave junkie). This helps in case of crashes, needing to suddenly go, etc.

It's handy in case you want to just try out different scenarios just to see how things work out. It's handy if you want to do something dangerous and not completely [censored] up your game.
The rest is in your own hands. Personally I only reload nowadays after something major happens. Something that alters my game tremendously in a way I don't like. If I get caught stealing, escape with barely health left, murder someone unimportant I wasn't suppose to, fail a quest of not too great importance, etc, I simply continue with my game.

And for some things I allow myself a number of reloads. Like trying to steal something very valuable and hard, then I allow myself 3 tries. If on the third try I still fail, that's how it is.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:55 am

Sometimes it is fun to quicksave just before you try and steal a shiny sword from a shop, then get caught by the guards without enough money to pay the fine, then end up going on a huge rampage throughout the town, killing everything in your path, only to reload and undo all the carnage you did a few moments ago.

But does anyone else ever get annoyed by this save "cheat", where you simply save before trying something or making a decision and then reload over and over again, "testing" all the potential outcomes? My problem with this is that it is quite unrealistic in a sense that it robs your decisions of some of their finality and consequences, unlike in the real world where time is linear and irreversible. That is why I think some of us may like to see a limited save system in order to prevent such abuse of the quicksave function. What do you guys think?

Yes, I realize that you can always mod something like this in easily, but that isn't the point. The point is to have a system implemented across the entire board for every Skyrim player, thus giving everyone an equal formula by which to judge each other's characters, achievements, and letting everyone know that whoever played Skyrim made decisive actions rather than "testing" every path their character could have taken.

Basically it's this:

"I've just joined the Dark Brotherhood and I'm carefully sneaking behind this man, about to assassinate him, knowing that whatever happens is final and absolute. This is it - there is no turning back now."

VS

"Well I'll just stroll up to this guy and stab a couple times, see what happens. If it doesn't go my way, not a big deal, I'll just reload"

What do you think is more thrilling?

Why is it this post makes me thing of the bible hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i think you enjoy the idea of "Make it so i like it or its horrible and my opinion is better than yours" and its reminds me of "do what i say or you will die" , Alas i think you have been reading fiction a little to much

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:48 am

It's a single player game. I don't want someone deciding what would be cheating myself. So, no timed saves for me. I'll save when and if I wish in my single player game because there is nobody to cheat but myself. If I want to only save once every hour....that is exactly what I will do.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:58 am

You need an "other" option because my idea doesn't fit your poll.

I agree.

Which polls lower, this or guns? I thought guns got the most hate, but damn 90% no for an limited save option(well sorta, the way the op talks about it, it seems like every should play the game his way).

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:44 am

If there were any restrictions on saving, I would not play the game.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:45 am

Do not punish me for your inability to restrain yourself. I am going to pay $60 for this game and I want a game that I can pick up and play, save and get off. This a game where if you die, you are DEAD you don't respawn or start over. You are dead. The only reason limited saving works in games like GTA is because you never die permanently. I do not want to spend time fighting a boss and getting his loot only to finish him off head back to town to save and my power goes out, with the last 5 hours i just spent down the drain. I would never buy a Bethesda game again if that happened.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:15 am

Demanding that Skyrim includes Spears - $50,000.

Suggesting that save games in a single player game are some blight that needs urgent developer attention - Priceless.

When will people learn that in a single player game Fun > "Balance"

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:47 am

I this autosave is better option, tho I'm deadly sure that it wont be there, tho saving every minute kind of kills replay for me, I usually save before talking or killing a character then re-load to re do it other way and see if anything is different lol... if it wasn't for that save that abused me I probably would replay Oblivion more than 5 times xD

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:06 am

For crying out loud - it's a single player game - if I want to save and reload when something doesn't go my way, it's not hurting anyone. If I want to save and leave the game at any point (maybe just maybe because I am an advlt and have a real life and things that need attending to regardless of my progress in a quest and regardless of whether I'm at a predetermined "save point") it's not hurting anyone. If I want to either legitimately enchant in game or cheat myself a suit of 100% chameleon gear, it's not hurting anyone. If I open the console and type tgm it's not hurting anyone.

For gods sake just leave it alone already, it's not my fault that you can't stop yourself ruining your game, and it doesn't hurt you if I need to make the game easier because of my arthritis making the vanilla game more difficult for me to react to than you - and whatever I need to do to make it playable to me. If I pay ￡40 for a game I want the opportunity to see all the content even if I have to cheat to get that, rather than be stuck 10 minutes in unable to progress. And being able to save and reload isn't even in the flipping ballpark.

If you have a lack of self control that is your problem, don't make it a problem for everyone else too :cryvaultboy:

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:15 am

For crying out loud - it's a single player game - if I want to save and reload when something doesn't go my way, it's not hurting anyone. If I want to save and leave the game at any point (maybe just maybe because I am an advlt and have a real life and things that need attending to regardless of my progress in a quest and regardless of whether I'm at a predetermined "save point") it's not hurting anyone. If I want to either legitimately enchant in game or cheat myself a suit of 100% chameleon gear, it's not hurting anyone. If I open the console and type tgm it's not hurting anyone.

For gods sake just leave it alone already, it's not my fault that you can't stop yourself ruining your game, and it doesn't hurt you if I need to make the game easier because of my arthritis making the vanilla game more difficult for me to react to than you - and whatever I need to do to make it playable to me. If I pay ￡40 for a game I want the opportunity to see all the content even if I have to cheat to get that, rather than be stuck 10 minutes in unable to progress. And being able to save and reload isn't even in the flipping ballpark.

If you have a lack of self control that is your problem, don't make it a problem for everyone else too :cryvaultboy:

Like I said, it was just my opinion, I know it'll stay the same as it was in previous games, I do have problems with self control.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:52 am

Landslide poll for the win! :tongue:

Anyways, stopping us from saving would be incredibly annoying and problematic. The game crashes fairly often, saving frequently stops you from losing thirty minutes of progress for no reason. If I have to go then I want to be able to save.

And if you don't want to "save cheat" then don't "save cheat".Don't thrust this upon us. And you shouldn't really care about others accomplishments in a single-player only game.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:36 am

personally i would like a borderlands type of system for normal games so that you have to plan ahead and carefully think about your decisions..........that being said it would not work well when your dealing with alot of mods, some of which might be game breaking or cause crashes. in those cases there really is no choice but traditional saves.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:27 pm

I like to be able to save whenever I want. Sometimes I need to stop in the middle of something, and I hate having to redo significant amounts of content over again.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:23 am

No thanks. I like being able to save whenever i want and i don't like checkpoints. I don't like the idea about only being able to save one or two times each hour either but i wouldn't mind it being an option. But i would use the traditional save system from Morrowind and Oblivion. Sure it makes the game easier but in my opinion it's much better than having to replay the last 30 minutes because you died or screwed something up.

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:43 pm

No change is necessary. If you don't like to "cheat" with save games, just don't.

Messing around is fun, especially in a game like this. The current save system is perfectly fine, if you don't want to use it to "cheat" then that's fine by me, what you do in your game isn't my business. Nor is what I do in mine your business.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, self control is all you need in cases like this. If your fun is ruined because you can't restrain yourself that's your problem, don't make it mine.

Couldn't have said it any better. The system is already perfect for everyone. I don't want to worry about having enough saves or a timer, when I have to suddenly quit or the game gets bugged.

If you want to have a system in which saves are only at starts of quests or x minute intervals, you're in luck! You can do that within Oblivion's save system. Let's hope it stays the same in Skyrim!

» Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:44 pm

It's a single player game, why does it matter to you (OP) how other people play?

(I'm reminded of the "I don't use mods, I want to play the game the way the developers intended" threads on the OB/FO3/FONV forums. Um, the developers included a robust mod system and released free & complex mod-making tools. It seems pretty much like the way the game is "intended". Similarly, the developers included configuarable autosaves, manual saves, and quicksave/quickload functions. I imagine that they intended for people to have great flexibility in saving. What you do with that flexibility is up to you. Don't want to save-scum? Don't do it.)