Ow. I've enjoyed oblivion's level scaling the most out of any game. Not just can I become weaker through leveling I can also become stronger. Having the +4 +5 stat bonuses makes each level rewarding. I can tailor my character to my game style. The bonuses could have been explain better or important abilities grouped together. That's all.

I'm not keen on having different outside areas closed off because of my level. I hope the desire for level based areas isn't coming from old school nostalgia. It's no fun exploring huge areas and hitting a wall to hammer down another day. I prefer outside and main quest areas to scale to the player while special dungeons and small areas lock for the player to come back stronger. Dungeons are linear, outside is open, makes sense to keep it this way.

Both leveling systems are just two different ways of seeing yourself get ahead. Either go places so the area locks to your level and come back higher level if needed. (Skyrim / Fall out 3). Or. Get ahead of level scaling with stat bonuses (oblivion). The former is what will be done, while the latter is what has been done. What is done rewards me. I become stronger and more powerful, not just a carrot or cake to keep me happy.

I've never played fall out. I hear it's a good game but from the sounds of the leveling, skyrim will have a totally different style of play to oblivion. There's merit with the OP I agree with.

Nehrim.

I played Risen and I disagree as for scaling:


When I first played Oblivion I had to mod it as I did not like the scaling, I thought MW static approach was much better. But after playing Fallout 3, I realized that scaling was good if used properly. OB overdid. In MW after level 20 something the challenge ended. But I still did not think it was a must, now after playing Fallout New Vegas, I think scaling is a must for open world rpgs. In linear rpgs there is scaling by default, as you progress the weapons/armor get better, the beast get harder,etc But with the open world design you lose that with out scaling(level range scaling) that sense of progression.

Also encounters are less fun because there either too hard or too easy. In Morrowind the battle system was not great so it mattered less but as combat gets better is matters more and more. Take Oblivion for example, I recently tried playing Nerhim(?). When I started out the monsters were easy and I just bashed the attack button as fast as I could, I thought to myself well I guess Oblivions combat has not aged well I use to think it was the best rpg combat out there, oh well. Then later on I fought some stronger guys and suddenly things changed, no longer was I spamming the attack button but now I was using the block button, dodging attacks, trying to figure out the best time to use a strong attack or perhaps some quick weak attack spamming is enough to finish this guy off. Skyrim will use an even more elborate system than Oblivion, I don't want to spend my time spamming the weak attack in Skyrim because I have reached x level and everything is a joke, nor do I want to be confined to a small area of the world because if I go any were else I will die in one hit.

Now as I said at the start Oblivion did not do scaling well(I used frans mod). Total scaling is bad, but I think the way Skyrim is going, using a level range scaling system like Fallout 3 is good.

These are my main reasons for scaling:

-Surprise factor during replay, if all chest are static you learn whats in them and you lose a lot of the fun factor in finding them.

-Better challenge curve, things don't become lame when you reach x level. Even the best combat system is lame if everything is a pushover. And you don't get overly frustrated by everything being to hard.

-Better loot curve, as you get better you get better stuff, long ago when I was a console player I was really into the Final Fantasy games, and it was great the steady progression of better and better stuff. This was lost in MW, great more crap, oh whats this, more crap,etc

But we don't want to go overboard like Oblivion, I want a system that still does stuff similar to more static systems like:

-Sense of getting more powerful, its always a lot of fun squashing some beast that a few hours earlier you had to run for your life from.

-It adds a great dynamic of risk/reward, you take a risk and get rewarded appropriately. Like in MW were you managed to sneak past tons of powerful beasts, then found a cool new sword for all your trouble.

-Realism/immersion makes me feel more like this is a living world that would function whether I am there or not.(though when I was younger I never understood why as I went through a linear rpg each new area always had stronger beasts and better loot)

So to get all this a level ranged scaling system like Skyrim will use seems best. Fallout 3 had hand placed loot and tough encounters & places yet gave you a lot of freedom from the start. And no scaled unique items, which is absurd.

I see what you're saying, and one thing I liked about oblivion was that I never had to grind, no matter where I went or what I did I would never be in a situation too hard, some where challenging but they could always be beaten if I did things right. But, once I was level 35 and over I didn't feel enemies were too hard; I felt enemies had too much health and so did I. A single leveled enemy takes me a very long time at level 42, even though I don't loose that much health.
Also just because the game doesn't have major/minor skills doesn't mean the leveling can be perfect.
For example: Someone has level 100 one handed weapons and level 100 two handed weapons, they have a very high level, maybe more than 15 level ups from those two skills alone (guess). Despite having high levels in these two skills, they can only use one at a time, making them redundant. So this player would have an easier time having not invested in two handed (or vice versa). The same goes for light and heavy armour (if has those two). And what about people who invest in skills like sneak or alchemy, sure these help in battle but surely not as much as blade is to a warrior. What I'm trying to say is, some skills can be redundant if the player uses other styles as well, and some skills don't help as mush as others, so some players may still be able to fall behind leveled enemies despite not having major/minor skills.
On item scaling, I agree that it svcks getting an early version of something really useful to a player of higher level, and then never being able to obtain the better version. Although for items that are leveled but not one of a kind they should not level with you, as one can obtain better versions later. An alternative could be how oblivion handled the daedric quests, restrict some quests with higher level rewards to players past a certain level and always give the best version. Most players wouldn't notice, as the quest giver could just not address the player with the mission until they are of that level. And sure, players who are on reruns would have to wait to do the quest, but with oblivion system they end up waiting often to get the best version anyway. These quests could also be of high difficulty but not leveled. For example: Once at level 20 the player can approach an npc about a specific quest, the player must kill level vampires that are always at level 25. If the player starts the quest right away it will be quite hard but the player will receive a reward above their level. If the player does the quest at level 30 it will be easy but they will receive a reward that may not be of much use, or only be okay. So the player receives a reward that will be as good as the difficulty they went through to obtain it. This could add variation to the difficulty, but players would not be forced to go through a quest that is easy and boring or one that is hard and annoying, they could choose. This could also apply to having high levels in a particular skill, if you get 80 sneak you can be offered a high level sneak quest that people without 80 sneak might find very hard, and get a reward that people who use sneak would find useful.

Did we play the same game? The best gear doesn't even exist in the game at level 10 let alone lvl 1.

The whole reason I do not want OB level sacling is because I want to kill weak enemies easily as I get stronger. The last Thing i want is constantly having the same type of enemy being a challenge to me, I wanna progress and I wanna get stronger. Level scaling completely ruins this, and it might aswell not have leveling at all.

Having the world constantly adapt to you is a terrible idea imo. I want to be forced to make my way in the game world, i wanna struggle at low levels and I wanna relish when i reach power. With this silly "the world revolves around you" system you'd have no sense of anything, it'd just be one long hack and slash fest.

Also, leveling items is a bad idea aswell. An item is supposed to represent an idendity, a set value you can relate to. With stats flying up and down according to your level, unique items wont feel unique at all, but merely some kind of heirloom trinket from wow. Unique items should be powerful rare and hard to come by.