The real heroes are almost never credited.

kinda like how people still think Edison invented the light bulb when he stole it from the 100000 times more talented Tesla.

That was electricity, with Edison huge on DC power, and Tesla the inventor of AC power. And there's also microwaves, which was credited to someone else.

There actually is some speculation that Edison took the idea of the light bulb from Tesla.


but anyways true heroes rarely get remembered.

We can only hope.

NO ONE saw martin become akatosh but the champion. Afterward, Occato comes and and asks where martin went.

But chances they saw a giant flaming dragon come out of nowhere to take a chunk outta Dagon. Besides, the empire would probably love to spin the story for the sake of having another great hero-king. I mean a random prisoner who ran around basically as a agent/courier isn't much of a story they'd go for. Lost son of the emperor who denounced his daedra worshiping ways to become a priest and helped people take refuge at Kvatch come out of nowhere to become a giant flaming dragon which defeated a daedraic prince? Thats a story that would sell.

so your saying the champion of cyrodil would be forgotten that makes no sense, he was the saviour of bruma who single handedly whent into the oblivion gate and shut it. he also saved kavatch my destroying the gate laying siege and clearing out the daedra within the city. this champion who became the leader of all four guilds beat back the black marsh company destroyed the worm king and the necromancer menace and whas the guy who sneaked into the imperial libery and actualy stole an elder scroll. not to mention he is the leader of the dark brother hood.

not only that he defeated an ayeleid king on the top of the imperial tower and then ventured into the shivering isles and became pretty much a god, your saying this man will be forgotten thats madness.

No, BUT THEY SAW HIM ENTER THE TEMPLE and he DIDN'T COME OUT. Caps doesn't reinforce your point. Aside from that, most would point two and two together and are then told that the last Septim sacrificed himself to turn back the tides of Oblivion.

edit: Bobski, every single Hero's identity has been forgotten, its not maddness its fate. Again, no one knew the champion personally nor did they witness half the things he did. You have to be seen to be remembered.

To be fair, he is the lord of madness now...

Anyway, despite all of that (Presuming completing all 4 guilds was a part of your playthrough) the Champions biggest accomplishments were the battle for Bruma and Kvatch. Actually, I picture him being remembered more for reinstating the Knights of Nine more than anything. Sure, he'd be the savior of Cyrodiil but he probably would not take credit for ending Oblivion crisis. And really, whos going to know if the man became a Daedraic prince? Having a guy run around proclaiming such would be seen as a whack job....as ironic as it is. To sum everything up, the CoC will be remembered for a host of things. I just don't think him ending the Oblivion crisis will be one of them.

I find it kinda silly that the people in every town

-Know you as the hero of Kavatch
-Thank you for closing the gate that threaded their specific city.
-Know, and make mention of knowing, you are the Divine Crusader who killed Umaril above the Imperial City

And yet, somehow, even after everyone in all the towns across Cyrdoiil knowing who you are and what you did, you are ultimately forgotten.



I mean it's not like doing jobs for the Fighters guild where people just say "the fighters guild did that job" they mention knowing YOU specifically did those things.

And this is assuming if the CoC acatually did ALL of the guild/dlc quest and what not. Obviously, the dev would not straight out tell us that the CoC actually did all that as this would piss a handful of player who roleplay the game differently (who the hell wanna force more information that ya own PC did what the dev said like for example, ya Non-magic using Warrior PC suddenly is the head of the Mage Guild or a Dark Brotherhood member is involve with the Knights of Nine quest). I find it alot easier that there is more than 1 PC at play with the whole game of Oblivon (and in Daggerfall).

It is quite clear that if anything that would be known, its the main quest, and even then, all the action the PC did would be overshadow by Sean Bean's transformation into a Dragon and biting Dagon's neck. This would be remember for generations to come, not some everyday adventurer that save a village (which is pretty common in any RPG format). Yeah ya save the village/town, but it is pale in comparison to the larger event and/or its only a short term period and things go back to normal and ya action is not worth remembering.

Personally, I find it silly that anyone knows you did 90% of the things you did given.

- You usually go at it alone
- Your appearance is never recorded
- The Provence is under siege yet somehow everyone gets news like its a normal day

Honestly, the fact that people know you on site is just preposterous.

Thats exactly the thing. I feel that outside of Cyrodiil, he wouldn't be anywhere near as important a figure as he would in Cyrodiil. I'm sure a good portion of people outside of the province it would give too much of a flip for this guy that ran around helping people in Cyrodiil. But, throw in the bastard son of the emperor who sacrificed himself to save the entire empire from the jaws of Oblivion, thats a story that more people (At the time) could probably gather around and sing about. Like I said, the CoC will probably be reduced to a local legend that will get some nice little nods to, but people will associate the end of the Oblivion crisis with Martin Septim.

The Oblivion gates you close for each town are within reasonable guard viewing distance.

Well, see former anology. For the first few years, everyone might know the assassin employed to help politically inconvenient person x depart this veil of tears, but a hundred years later it's all just "king bob had him killed, no assassin was convicted."

And people would be more likely to credit Oreyn, as the mastermind. Like we've been saying, the most likely the CoC is to be remembered is as Pelinal Reborn, and therefore not even as him- or herself. For everything else, the CoC was either a minion or a tool. He became the head of two guilds which very soon after ceased to exist, or two other guilds where his identity as grey Fox or listener would be secret, helped Martin become the big hero, became the god of insanity and restarted a knightly order. One of those could lead to fame in more than the short term.

I don't remember anyone calling me Pelinal Reborn, or see a reason as to why they would.

I just collected some artifacts, I didn't become him.

To an extent, you sort of did. Not literally, but people would probably see you as such. Not to mention the whole "Holy crap he died during the fight and came back to life."

Well it, to me, didn't seem like how Martin became Akatosh, or how you became Sheogorath.


You just prayed, talked to the guy, then collected his old stuff. Also dying and coming back really doesn't enforce you becoming Pelinal.

Oh really? So when the Prophet explicitly called you "Pelinal Whitestrake Reborn" that didn't count? And suddenly mantling stopped happening, when you "walked like Pelinal" by fighting your way to Umaril and slaying him? And then claiming his own title of Divine Crusader, thus, by the way the world works in TES, becoming him?

Was that event publicized by the knights though? They kept your apparent death secret, and I don't recall any rumors about the pc's apparent ressurection.

If you had walked like Pelinal you would have died and stayed dead.

also I don't recall the Prophet saying that.

Seriously? Are you serious? So, basically, the Nerevarine can't be Nerevar reborn because he survived Almalexia's insanity in the Clockwork City? Or, we could pay attention to the things happening in the game, when the Prophet says the addition of Talos to replace the missing god allows the new iteration of Pelinal to succeed where the other failed. These are not carbon copies, more like updated re-releases.

And he did say that. Very explicitly and quite loudly, and emphasized in such a way as to make it virtually impossible to miss the implication of the CoC mantling Pelinal.

Reincarnations =/= mantling

Also mantling isn't a thing mentioned in any of the games or official materials. It is another one of those MK things people accept as fact because it's more "fun".

You are right, but I think what they kept secret was your initial death while you were still, er, dead. Once you came back to life, I don't think there was a need for that any more. Hell, I could picture (If it indeed happened at one point) where stories were told of that event. But that is just mere speculation.

Really? Someone else in the future who is also someone who had been alive in the past? They are both that, just one is born naturally and the other is made.That is not the point being made or debated, however. You're just shifting the focus for the sake of arguing whenever someone points out the absolute folly of pretty well your every statement.

Read the lore before trying to argue, and stop pretending sneer quotes makes you look smart. And yes, the concept is mentioned, the obscure texts and other developer sources just flesh it out. Debating the metaphysics would be a lot easier if you had even a tenuous knowledge of the basic facts at hand.