okay keep preordering and ruining gaming for everyone

Only as long as you promise to keep blowing things out of proportion.

Bethesda is pretty much the only studio I would preorder from, or buy a season pass from. I could say that about Bethesda as a publisher, but the only other Bethesda-published game I absolutely know I'd preorder and/or season pass is Dishonored 2. (if Mega Man weren't published by Capcom, and Mega Man games were still being made, I'd probably buy a season pass or preorder for them too)

There are certain franchises that nothing will dissuade me from buying and playing at release. Fallout is in that category. For these games, there is no reason not to pre-order. Anyway, with Steam's refund policy, a pre-order is zero risk (not that I can foresee any reason for which I would seek a refund for Fallout 4).

If you're not sure about any aspect of the game, feel free to wait for system requirements, release day, reviews, or whatever you need before you commit. I'll be playing Fallout 4 as soon as I possibly can. Sorry to ruin gaming for you.

buy games not hype and marketing!

Explain to me how pre-ordering the Season Pass ruins the game for everyone? In return I'll explain to you why pre-ordering makes it better for everyone.

Preordering saves you money and doesn't ruin anything.....you get a complete 400+ hour game for the base price of $60...what more do you want? What the hell are you whining about? It's not like they locked some guns behind a pay wall and are feeding them one by one for $5 each or something. All DLC Bethesda does is substantial and more than worth its price on top of a complete game that is also far more than worth its price. So please, gtfo with arguments about how preordering ruins games. I already have the money in my PSN wallet, can't wait to be able to buy it.

I could see someone having a valid argument against preorders if BGS were to announce the game for $60, and then turn around in a month and say preorders get 25% more content for free! That would upset plenty of people and in my mind not be a good practice. As it is, we all get the same content, and for the same price. The only discounts come for DLC, but again they are up front in telling you. You can order it ala cart or all at once and save a little money.

Funny thing is Obsidian, the company most hold in such high regard for NV, did exactly that (gave extra content to preorders). Remember Gun Runners arsenal? The only thing BGS is giving you is a free poster, and that will have zero in game effect.

Uh, GRA wasn't given out to people who pre-ordered the game at all. It was the last DLC if I recall. There were pre-order packs, but minor ones at that.

*Courier's Stash was the bundle of pre-order incentives, released later as DLC.

I'm not a fan of in-game bonuses for pre-orders, but a little discount is nice (a few years ago, 10% off for pre-ordering a game was fairly typical on Steam). Even without it, the main reason I pre-order is so I can pre-load the game a few days before release. For a must-buy game like Fallout 4, I'll pre-order whenever, because, why the hell not?

You're thinking of Courier's Stash and the pre-order DLC, not Gun Runners Arsenal. Personally I didn't like the pre order DLC either, especially now that couriers stash is out and you get 4 full sets of equipment dumped on you at game start.

I find it a little gross that the season pass is available for pre-order before the game even comes out.

Feel the wrath of buzzwords!

Not really. First of all, needs to be said: Horse Armor.

Moving to more recent things, the only DLC I think Bethesda priced appropriately with Skyrim was Hearthfire. I don't think Dawnguard was worth 20 dollars, closer to 15-17. I do think Dragonborn was underpriced.

As for your arguments about preordering, I've never seen games sell cheaper as a preorder incentive, so the saving money doesn't seem to come into play. More importantly, there's nothing inherently wrong with preordering, but the way publishers have abused it does mean that it has had a somewhat detrimental impact on games, as it allows publishers to make their money by hyping a game and running off to cash the day one checks before everyone gets the chance to see that the game isn't good, especially with the BS return policies for games that mean that you can't return it if you've taken off the shrink-wrap. And just want to add something about the PSN wallet and the like, I do have a problem with things like that, because essentially what you've done is given Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Etc real money in exchange for monopoly money on the off chance you find something you want to buy from them.

The best you got is a pathetic argument about a decade ago? Seriously? Get out of here dude. And you still can't touch the fact that at 400+ hours the base game is worth hundreds. You'll need a lot more than that for a sad ass argument about how preorders ruin games. You are straight up offered a 25% discount and knowing Bethesda those DLC will most likely be worth at least $100 but you're still whining.

I only have one thing to say about the season pass: GMG.
I ordered mine today - and it was not $30.

If only.....

I wouldn't say it was my best argument. It was just a small example of the fault in your argument that Bethesda's DLC is "always substantial and more than worth its price," made because I didn't feel like getting into a bigger listing of DLCs that prove that wasn't the case. Most of Oblivion's DLC was not substantial. Nor would I say Operation: Anchorage or Mothership Zeta were substantial, being incredibly linear things that didn't add much to the world and were essentially asking you to spend ten dollars on a single questline, with the emphasis on line. Broken Steel was not particularly well crafted either, mostly due to it svcking the wind out of Fallout 3's actual ending and the inclusion of uber-mooks that took far too long to die, because apparently someone at Bethesda confused "wars of attrition" with "fun combat." Hearthfire wasn't substantial either, but despite its numerous shortcomings it was a nice little addition and was priced appropriately.

Time does not equal value. Chess has a high replay value and a single board can lead to trillions of different games, but that does not mean a chessboard should cost a million dollars. As for the DLC being worth at least a hundred dollars. I doubt it. I certainly wouldn't have paid fifty dollars for Fallout 3's DLC like Bethesda wanted. Maybe thirty? Skyrim's DLC prices were overall about what I'd say the content was worth, just not distributed appropriately, but even so it doesn't come up to even a fifty dollar value to me, let alone a hundred.

Besides, I wouldn't say I'm whining about the season pass. I have problems with it, certainly. I think it's gross to be selling DLC before the game drops. I think it's ill-advised to give Bethesda money for a product that doesn't exist, may not have even been conceptualized yet, no idea of how many DLCs will make up the contents of the season pass, and have no timetable for their launches. But voicing displeasure about something isn't the same as whining.

If you want to buy the season pass, more power to you. I may get it once I have a feel for the game and its content and an idea for what the DLC will actually be, but for now I see absolutely no reason to give Bethesda more money. Do what you want, but I'd appreciate it you were respectful of people who disagreed with you. You're often more than a little rude in your replies.

Gun Runners Arsenal was a DLC full of cheat weapons, though they had to be bought in game and were very expensive. The pre-order bonuses were just moderately better items that were cheated into your inventory at the start of the game.

You should be able to tell from the word "cheat", that i was not a fan And yes, Bethesda has never done stuff like that; the cheat items are in their games for everyone

Honestly I don't understand it.Why would I give them money without actually knowing what I'm getting?Even if I like Bethesda games there is no way I would trust them that much.Especially since I did not like some of the Fallout 3 dlc.

I'll pre-order a game that I'm going to be getting day1 anyway. As I mentioned earlier, it guarantees that my shop has a physical PC copy. And sometimes, it'll get me some bonuses - like the Mechromancer & Slaughter Pit DLCs for Borderlands 2.

I've never gotten a discount for a pre-order, though.

That said, I don't pre-order many games. Because I don't buy that many day1/big releases in the first place. (like, those "look at all the Holiday games!" articles pop up on Kotaku, the comments section fills up with "oh, god, how will I afford all those games", and all I can think is..... only one of those interests me. This year, it's FO4. )

...I do miss pre-ordering in the '90's, though. So much free crap (that you now have to buy $50 lootcrates to get) - calendars, soundtrack CDs, clocks, pins, posters......

Best pre-order bonus I ever got was a free copy of XCOM: EU with Bioshock Infinite. XCOM ended up being one of my favourite games and ate up 350 hours.

I got it from the Golden Joystick promo last year, absolutely love XCOM. Febuary 5 cannot come fast enough.

If you spend as much time with mods as the base game (like me), you will find that some of the bigger mods - like TTW - require all the DLCs for a base game like Fallout 3.

Even if you never play the DLC, that adds value to having it.

Normally I wouldn't do this, but I'm definitely getting the season pass. Bethesda has always been a decent company, and I've always liked their games. To me, it isn't even so much about trust, but rather giving support to a company that I personally like.

At first, I wasn't a fan of season passes because I felt that it took incentive away from Bethesda to produce larger, quality DLC. However, this method also potentially gives the dev team extra revenue to work with while they develop the DLC.

No thanks, I'll wait until we get the game and I feel the need to spend more money on it. Not letting another Skyrim situation happen to me again. In where I bought all dlcs when they released in blind devotion to TES and just messed a little bit around with Hearthfire, completed Dawnguard, and hardly touched Dragonborn. I just got bored with the game. Dawnguard was very enjoyable at times but it's ending svcked and Dragonborn's severe lack of balance and boring quest lines finally made me quit Skyrim for good.

this whole season pass for a game nobody played yed and we know nothing about sounds almost as bad as this whole star citizen controversy , except this isn t about crowd funding bethesda doesn t need that this is just pure greed

I think it's interesting how split this topic is. As for me I'm more in the really devoted fan camp of things and have no hesitation buying DLC now. As of now I have 3 copies of FO4 (1 steam, 1 pipboy, 1 Xbox One) and 2 with the season pass. I think it is very reasonable to not have this position though but I doubt I will regret this choice. After playing FO3 and Skyrim, Bethesda has earned it.