20 sec respawns?

Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:59 am

Good for you. However, this isn't a valid concern for the game. As has been pointed out, it has been used in other, very successful, titles. Its a non point, your arguements dont add up on this matter.
Dont get me wrong, I dont think this game is perfect, there are a few issues i'm worried about. However this is not one of them for 90% of the people on this forum.

Also i think you should give this community more credit than you are, as they are not an unintelligent bunch!

I like you already, Novice.
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N3T4
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:17 am

Yea I feel you there man. To honest I didnt know what I was going to do with Brink and KZ3 coming out so close together and them being so similar in play. Then I got invited to play the beta for KZ3 and was like wow they have completely not listened to anything the core players of KZ2 asked for instead opting to try and be a greedy cash cow and turn such a great franchise into another COD clone. The new spawn system, the spawn timer being so fast, matches all playing out the same because of those making the game get old and stale quick it was a huge let down but made my decision easy I suppose.

Now all I can do is pray that Brink turns out as great we all hope it will be.


Same here I agree with everything you said imo KZ3 was a complete downgrade from its predecessor, everything in theory so far regarding Brink sounds great and all thats left is to play it. Im just glad its not trying to be another Call of Duty because too many games lately seem to be on track to that path.
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Gavin boyce
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:10 pm

Same here I agree with everything you said imo KZ3 was a complete downgrade from its predecessor, everything in theory so far regarding Brink sounds great and all thats left is to play it. Im just glad its not trying to be another Call of Duty because too many games lately seem to be on track to that path.


Yea everyone want a piece of there pie instead of creating something unique to get that piece. It will def be a nice breath of fresh air to have a good team oriented,class based, objective oriented FPS instead of all these mindless run and guns being put out.
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Marilú
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:25 am

I guess having a wave timer would be good, as players will value their lives more.


This I gotta see...
:lmao:

Honestly for a game that looks and sounds like itll be more for the run and gunner...I don't think a 20 sec respawn will appeal to such folk.
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priscillaaa
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:23 pm

For one, telling me to play CoD is completely ineffective...I dispise that game for many reasons including the whole one wolf aspect. What you're not understanding is I'm playing the devil's advocate on many issues most of you seem to sheep over when they get poured out of a Developers mouth. I look at all aspects of a game and try and break them instead of just going with the crowd because "oh, I guess it makes sense."

I have NEVER been in a game with a respawn timer longer then 8 seconds where people are saying "Boy, this was such a good idea, I think I'll knit while I wait.". The complete oppisite is usually the case where I get to hear many words I can't share with you fine wool producers.

I understand the wave concept, I can sympathis with your undieing wish of cooperative play amongs online twits but this is not the way to do it.

Wave respawns create nothing but that...A wave of spawns that will flood out for a moment destroying everything in their combined path but it will eventually disperse as everyone goes their seperate ways.


you arent playing anything other than a blatently ignorant fool. now that you have proclaimed that you have indeed NOT had any experience with this sort of respawning, why dont your try listening to the people who have? you ignorantly claim that we are simply taking it as it is and saying it will be fine because that is the cool thing to do, yet most of us have actually played games with this mechanic, and have even said so in our posts. you blow all the the topics you bring up way out of proportion, and then accuse everyone else of being the idiots.

like i said, just cancel your preorder if you have one, and get out. your arent making intellectual debate, you are expressing your own concerns about features that you have no experience with. and instead of listening to feedback from people that have used such features (or just know more about them than you), you accuse them of being the fool that you are.

you havent played anything with more than a 8 second respawn? i guess that means you havent even played anything with a wave spawn either. so what would you know about what a wave spawn creates? either way, you simply do not have enough experience (or intellect it seems) to tell other people how its going to work.


Your not playing devils advocate, your just being beligerent. A wave spawn sounds perfect for this and a 20 sec wave time, also, sounds fine.
If we shrink the wave time the ACTUAL spawn time average will also drop. Say for arguements sake the average time of a 20 sec wave is 10 secs, then a fifteen sec wave would have an average of only 7.5 secs, which is shorter than the respawn in objective games in Halo and is nowhere near enough time to reward the team who are doing the killing.

Also I prefer a wave spawn over an individual spawn. Say four of my team are taken out by the enemy who are close to taking an objective. Guy number 1 died at 18 secs number 2 at 15 secs, number 3 at 8 secs and lastly number 4 at 3 seconds. In a game like Halo these people would all run off individually to stop the opposition completing the objective, likely resulting in them getting taken out one at a time by the other team who are ready and waiting for them. Now in Brink these guys all spawn together and can set off and reach the enemy at the same time. Making their attempt to stop the other team much more likely to succeed!


listen to people like this who actually know what they are talking about. otherwise, like i said before and will say again, just leave and dont buy the game. you have a negative enough opinion of it as it is. and with your concerns, it seems likely that it just wont be the game for you.



P.S. every single post you make ignores the entire mechanics behind a wave spawn. YOU WILL NOT BE WAITING 20 SECONDS TO SPAWN. if you ever do, it will be on rare occasions. and the times that you spawn immediately will counter act it. your average spawn time will be LESS THAN 10 SECONDS

P.P.S. despite your announced dislike of CoD, you are still in the mindset of someone who primarily plays team deathmatch varients and/or primarily is a lone wolf.
Solo kills are the poorest paying way to earn XP in Brink. However, neutralizing a target at or around the current core objective gives each one of said kills a multiplier. Kills scored when traveling with teammates also get multiplied. Getting kills while defending a core objective and fighting alongside teammates can pay fairly well. Spawn camping to try to level up is a waste of player time, as not enough experience is paid due to spawns being far from the objective. If players want to earn most of their XP through shooting, they'll have to earn it through cooperative actions, holding their ground, and running offense on objectives.
you need to understand that this game will play different that most everything you have played. you will need to kill the other team, yes. but you will need to concentrate mainly on other stuff. your "wave of spawns that will flood out for a moment destroying everything in their combined path" is not likely to happen unless its a coordinated attack executed by an organized team. that kind of thing can happen in any game despite the respawn mechanics. by the time the 'wave' gets where they are going, or even half there, they will have split up. thats because they wont necessarily all be going to the same place, or getting there the same way.
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Victor Oropeza
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:50 am

Like I said in another one of my posts, I'm a hardcoe gamer focused on victory...that doesn't mean I want it to be easy ;)...and having half the opposing team waiting to spawn doesn't sound "fun" to me.


You want a deathmatch game, go play one or find better opponents.
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Amy Smith
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:08 pm

now that you have proclaimed that you have indeed NOT had any experience with this sort of respawning.
No, I said I've never been in a game that people thought it was a good idea. Kinda hard for them to have opinions if they're not in it...don't you think? Read it again.

you blow all the the topics you bring up way out of proportion, and then accuse everyone else of being the idiots.
Actually, I never said anything about anyone's intellagence until you folks brought it up. Originality, sure, but not intelligence. Look again...again lol

you are expressing your own concerns about features that you have no experience with. and instead of listening to feedback from people that have used such features (or just know more about them than you), you accuse them of being the fool that you are.
Actually I've played a few wave spawn games including the private beta and actual game of MAG. And I hope they'd be my own concerns, who's else would they be? And yes, I have listened to their opinions, even commented I agree with some of them. Next.

you havent played anything with more than a 8 second respawn? i guess that means you havent even played anything with a wave spawn either. so what would you know about what a wave spawn creates?
Again, played MAG and reported vigourously on its effects on the beta forum. I do know what it creates...a wave of folks pouring out of a spawn point that all move in a general direction for about 30 seconds depending on the map layout and then they split up. When I said "I haven't played"...you didn't finish the rest of the sentance before making a hasty conclusion.

you have a negative enough opinion of it as it is.
Not really...I'd call it cautious iquisition.

P.P.S. despite your announced dislike of CoD, you are still in the mindset of someone who primarily plays team deathmatch varients and/or primarily is a lone wolf. you need to understand that this game will play different that most everything you have played. but you will need to concentrate mainly on other stuff. your "wave of spawns that will flood out for a moment destroying everything in their combined path" is not likely to happen unless its a coordinated attack executed by an organized team. that kind of thing can happen in any game despite the respawn mechanics. by the time the 'wave' gets where they are going, or even half there, they will have split up. thats because they wont necessarily all be going to the same place, or getting there the same way.
I like how you simply, word for word, agreed with my opinion that despite Wave spawning, team play and team work is essentially forgotten by anyone not intently playing as a team..I.E. most of the gamers out there. Not everyone's a team player, in fact, I'd wager, unless you're with friends...75% of the online community isn't, mainly leaning towards consoles agian as previously stated.

Like I said, this isn't my first rodeo. Team deathmatch is fun but actually I much rather prefer Objective based game modes. Territories in Halo, War In CoD:WaW (miss that game), Conquest in Bad Company 2, and Secotr control in Medal of Honor. So before you start "assuming" about me...yeah, just don't do that cus youll be wrong.

I post what I post so that a game I'm going to be spending 60 bucks is going to be a good investment. I could honestly care less what you guys think of me but it truthfully helps me get to know the community which I'll be playing with when you all get so opinionated.
And in all honesty, I got my answer back when the true genius of this thread posted his one comment on page 3. Thank you R man, thats really all I needed to hear.
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Emma Louise Adams
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:03 pm

personly i feel like u havent ever played mag. mag had an awesome wave respawn that i beleive was 20 sec mite of been 30. and it worked great i NEVER waited the full time actualy alot of the time i would die RITE when it hit 0 so i would respawn faster. btw objectives need there to be times where if you kill EVERYONE you should have time to do the objective. the wave system makes the game more team like


I did. It's on my PSN account. Hated it enough to return it the next day. I have done that with only 2 games ever. Mag and Homefront.

20 secs is a long time to sit.....but waves lessen the chance of actually being there that long. I do understand that. I also understand that it would be a medics advantage to have that long of a timer. I also understand what a wave is, hence my question toward it being a TEAM thing or just a chance to make the good play with the not so good or experienced. I also heard that you can't even commnicate through the game chat with players in the beginning. It was talked about in the youtube seen on the other thread.

1 spawn verified by a tester....waves...verified by video.....20 secs verified by testers and video. Just wondering if people had an opinion about it and if they might tweek it.


This thread wasn't to get people upset. Why not just provide input instead of placing or pointing fingers at peoples understanding or knowledge?



Understand that we understand that you have an opinion.....that "20 secs is perfect" for you. Its a DISCUSSION topic. Discuss, not whatever is going on here.....
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Dan Stevens
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:17 pm

Understand that we understand that you have an opinion.....that "20 secs is perfect" for you. Its a DISCUSSION topic. Discuss, not whatever is going on here.....

yeah, nuff said.
im done
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^~LIL B0NE5~^
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:14 pm

If you take away the Wave in the Spawn it encourages Lone Wolfing. Keeping it as a Wave ENCOURAGES a team to stick together in game.

I can see Anarchy Fox's point about people wanting to go it alone anyway, and obviously this will happen in the game. But at least this mechanic gives you the option and at least tries to make you play like a team. I'd rather spawn with a few dudes who can buff my health and my gun before I go on my merry way than alone and vulnerable to the already buffed opposition.

We all know the arguments for 20 second spawn regarding Medics, I'm curious to hear what the people who want the time shortened think should be done with the Medics Revival skill, seeing as putting the spawn time down is effectively removing the skill. Lets face it if i die with 17 seconds near a medic I might think "see if people get cleared out and he can revive me" then after 6 seconds of fighting and 3 seconds to get my needle and inject myself I'm up and have saved 8 seconds of waiting to respawn. However if I go down at anything under 7 seconds with a shorter time (which would be much more common with a shorter timer) it would be quicker for me to just come back with the reinforcements.
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Wayland Neace
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:38 am

spawn waves are GREAT! instead of CoD randomness, you have whole teams charging objectives, so the other team has to stay together to stop the charge. just one more way to encourage teamwork!
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Mario Alcantar
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:51 am

You said it, not me.

Faster, faster, faster is what gamers want now. And 20 seconds isn't fast when you're in a game thats designed to be such.

I stand corrected:

As of now, 13:45 CET+1, the http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/162/steamstats.png are as following:
  • Current Players - 49,866: Counter-Strike
  • Current Players - 44,342: Counter-Strike: Source
  • Current Players - 26,628: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer
  • Current Players - 21,188: Call of Duty: Black Ops - Multiplayer

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Eoh
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:39 pm

I stand corrected:

As of now, 13:45 CET+1, the http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/162/steamstats.png are as following:
  • Current Players - 49,866: Counter-Strike
  • Current Players - 44,342: Counter-Strike: Source
  • Current Players - 26,628: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer
  • Current Players - 21,188: Call of Duty: Black Ops - Multiplayer



Not that I don't believe you but I'll need a link before I'm convinced.

Either way, it won't change my opinion. Game's popularty sometimes override their obvious flaws. For instance, people still play Medal of Honor for some unknown reason. And the numbers above say nothing towards the respawn's ability to make team players. Like I said in an earlier post, the only true counter I've read so far is Red's post about how nobody who's actually played Brink has said anything negative about the respawn. Nothing positive has been brought up, but nothing negative either.

Also, as many of you still seemed convinced that due to these respawn condition the gaming community as a whole will somehow change into a functional team, you are in fact simply dillusion to your idealogical ideas of what this game will produce. I stand content that this will not in fact conjure some team mentality but more focus the draws of the lonewolf into a combined wave of them.

Imagine a shotgun compared to single round rifle. Simply because the pellets of the shotgun reach the target at relatively the same time does not make them a team.

There is no amount of force one can apply to a gamer to make him work as a team. Fact is the majority of the comminuty, unless intently bent on working as a team, will revert back to their lone wolf practises.

I've simply seen too many "dream ideals" of games before and while the whole wish for this game to bring out the team memeber in all of us, I simply have not seen it happen and therefore Im extremely sceptical of it. Hence my disapproval of said 20 second respawn.
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Kayleigh Mcneil
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:44 am

The respawns HELP encourage teamplay.

Just like the way XP is earned will HELP encourage teamplay.

And the way objectives are assigned will HELP encourage teamplay.

And the way removing KDR-tracking (and many other individual performance markers) will HELP encourage teamplay.

NONE of these changes from the standard FPS formula would have a significant beneficial effect alone. But when put together correctly, they should influence people's playstyles for the better.

In Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood, they made a game which encourages players to be stealthy and careful, but allows them to climb up and run across rooftops. MOST players quickly learn that making excessive use of the movement system is a fast-track to low scores, and that a patient, careful player will easily DOUBLE their points. That's because their target gains points when they run too much and start a chase, or when they give themselves away obviously enough for their target to stun them, AND because the stealthy, carefully-planned kills earn more bonuses, giving the player making the kill more points. The less skilled players gravitate over time towards a pure stealth playstyle, while the best people in the game incorporate a selective use of the movement system to allow them to approach their targets both quickly AND stealthily - sacrificing a minimal amount of points per kill to get a lot more kills per session.

If you work on both ends of the scale, offering risk/reward balance, AND rewarding others or punishing the player for decisions that go against the intent of the game, then people will gravitate towards the playstyle the developers want. This is, of course, assuming the playstyle the developers are rewarding is one people will enjoy, because if not, the game becomes boring and loses players, but Brink seems to be aiming for the right style of play, and doing so sensibly.
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adam holden
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:31 am

I can see Anarchy Fox's point about people wanting to go it alone anyway, and obviously this will happen in the game. But at least this mechanic gives you the option and at least tries to make you play like a team. I'd rather spawn with a few dudes who can buff my health and my gun before I go on my merry way than alone and vulnerable to the already buffed opposition.


I wouldn't see it neccacarily as an option, more so a general forcing of their will. 'Tries", is the key word in your post here and ulitmately thats what the majority of my arguement comes down to. Tries versus succeeds. I can agree the over all ends of the matter is teamwork and thats great...I'm just not to hot about the means, that's all.
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Meghan Terry
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:23 pm

After seeing the new vids, 20 seconds is not all that bad, plus if you have a medic doing his job, you will not have to worry about the 20 sec wait that often.
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Laura Samson
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:23 pm

20 sec is fine, they put it there for a reason, to help balance the gameplay. now quit questioning SD and do as they say! :slap:
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LittleMiss
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:55 am

20 seconds is a good amt of time. If the waves are too close together then you will be more likely to spawn with fewer teammates which leads to the problem of not having players with enough patience to wait for a coordinated attack.
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butterfly
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:23 pm

However if I go down at anything under 7 seconds with a shorter time (which would be much more common with a shorter timer) it would be quicker for me to just come back with the reinforcements.


don't forget to include the time it would take to run back to the action from the spawn. Depending on where you die even with a short respawn timer it would be worth waiting
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Samantha hulme
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:30 pm

Also do you lose buffs when incapacitated and medic revived? Or only if you go to respawn?
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Sami Blackburn
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:23 am

20 sec is fine, they put it there for a reason, to help balance the gameplay. now quit questioning SD and do as they say! :slap:


Actually I find questioning the developers is one of THE things people must do before launch.

As Ive sad before...I've seen plenty of game forums doing exactly as you're proposing now, just following and rooling about whatever comes out. Then when the game does release, its nothing but hate messgaes with a few sparce "Cheer up devs, I like your game." I saw it with Fable 3, Halo:Reach, Medal of Honor, Black Ops and Battlefield Bad Company 2 (especially the Vietnam DLC). Questioning and getting to know what the devs were thinking was one of the aspects that saved me from hateing Fable so, yeah.

It'll happen here, always does. The game doesn't match the hype in the fan's heads. I'm just experienced enough not to get my hopes up and come to such fancy's as "everyone will be a team player and its going to be uber coolz."

My hope for games is much more practical.
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Tom Flanagan
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:44 pm

Not that I don't believe you but I'll need a link before I'm convinced.

I guess you missed the link in "stats" then.

Also http://store.steampowered.com/stats/ you can see them live.
And as it stands currently, the numbers go like this:
  • Current Players: 96,517 - Portal 2
  • Current Players: 47,899 - Counter-Strike: Source
  • Current Players: 47,512 - Counter-Strike
  • Current Players: 24,513 - Football manager 2011
  • Current Players: 22,438 - Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Mutliplayer
  • Current Players: 20,377 - Call of Duty: Black Ops - Multiplayer


After seeing the new vids, 20 seconds is not all that bad, plus if you have a medic doing his job, you will not have to worry about the 20 sec wait that often.

And a great example for the luck you can get with respawn-times is in it, too.

When that one guy (in The Aquarium; with the Shotgun) gets killed he can wait 5 seconds for respawn, but instead waits about 7 for the nearby medic to revive him.
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laila hassan
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:56 am

After watching vids. I'm satisfied. In the end its up to the individual.
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Star Dunkels Macmillan
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:44 pm

You only get a 20 second respawn time if you are downed the instant the wave resets and you miss out, you can still be revived. Hell it's possible to get a one second respawn time if you are downed at the right time and choose to just not wait for a medic.
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Nathan Barker
 
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Post » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:35 pm



That factor in console players aswell? I find it a little hard to believe such and old game has pull over modern games but its not entirely impossble.
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Elisabete Gaspar
 
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