A Second Talos? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Tue May 08, 2012 10:20 am

Hrmm interesting, so are we not the dragon born of the prophecy then? TES has some odd lore behind it, yet I still enjoy learning as much as I can, even though a lot of things don't make sense :smile:

Well according to the wall we are but considering how lorewise Alduin's job is to end all life as we know it he can't technically die until he has devoured the world according to his destiny.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:32 am

Well according to the wall we are but considering how lorewise Alduin's job is to end all life as we know it he can't technically die until he has devoured the world according to his destiny.

Even if he does devour the world he doesn't die.

» Tue May 08, 2012 10:57 am

I'm doing the MQ in Skyrim again, and I've just retrieved the horn of Jurgen windcaller.

Now the grey beards have just done the "induction" for lack of a better word. Where they shout at the PC.
When I spoke to Angeir afterwards he did a rough translation for me, and said the phrase "long has the storm crown languished, you are ysmir now, Dragon of the north..

If I'm not mistaken, Storm Crown literally means Talos or vice versa. And wasn't Hjalti renamed Ysmir and then Talos?
Does this mean that the Greybeards acknowledge and accept the PC as the reincarnation or return of Talos?

» Tue May 08, 2012 3:34 am

He's late rather than early. The end has already been pushed forward once.

That seems odd. If I've got the timescale right, the world would have been only a few centuries old at that point. It hardly seems to merit the term "kalpa" if it's that short.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:09 am

That seems odd. If I've got the timescale right, the world would have been only a few centuries old at that point. It hardly seems to merit the term "kalpa" if it's that short.

In the Yokudan creation myth, they have to flee from Satakal constantly.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:43 am

He's late rather than early. The end has already been pushed forward once.

Seems rather odd to me, the last time he was around he didn't show any sign of trying to eat the world, he just wanted to rule it. I don't think he ever intended to actually start eating.

I'm doing the MQ in Skyrim again, and I've just retrieved the horn of Jurgen windcaller.

Now the grey beards have just done the "induction" for lack of a better word. Where they shout at the PC.
When I spoke to Angeir afterwards he did a rough translation for me, and said the phrase "long has the storm crown languished, you are ysmir now, Dragon of the north..

If I'm not mistaken, Storm Crown literally means Talos or vice versa. And wasn't Hjalti renamed Ysmir and then Talos?
Does this mean that the Greybeards acknowledge and accept the PC as the reincarnation or return of Talos?

No, it's just a title. A title other people held before you.

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:57 pm

Seems rather odd to me, the last time he was around he didn't show any sign of trying to eat the world, he just wanted to rule it. I don't think he ever intended to actually start eating.

Yeah, I think he got kinda tired of eating the world every kalpa-end and during the Dragon Wars, he tried to proclaim himself as Akatosh and rule over dragons and men. Well, cycles are indeed boring, and kinda static.

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:35 am

Yeah, I think he got kinda tired of eating the world every kalpa-end and during the Dragon Wars, he tried to proclaim himself as Akatosh and rule over dragons and men. Well, cycles are indeed boring, and kinda static.

Boring and static? But this is the elder scrolls...

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:57 am

Boring and static? But this is the elder scrolls...

I meant for Alduin. Like eating the world over and over again is boring after a while.

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:07 am

Alduin was not banished into the future. He was destroyed by the Dovakhiin...

Zu' u unslaad!

Zu' u nis oblaan!

Whether Akatosh chooses to replace him is another matter. What we know is that at endgame Alduin is killed

Sahrot Thur Qahnaraan!

Dovakhiin los ok Dovahkriid

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:16 am

Alduin his soul is around, other dragons don't die unless their soul is absorbed. So it stands to reason that Alduin is still alive, or at the very least can be returned to life.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:08 am

No, it's just a title. A title other people held before you.

Lorkhan and his avatars:

1. Wulfharth L
2. Hjalti O
3. Ysmir R
4. Talos K
5. Arctus H
6. Septim A
N

Just a title.

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:53 am

Tosh Raka is Auriel. To become Dragons (that is, et'ada, not Aedra) is the goal of both the Altmer and to Ka Po' Tun.

Isnt Auriel akatosh? i might be wrong,Have forgetting some stuff.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:16 am

Isnt Auriel akatosh? i might be wrong,Have forgetting some stuff.

Akatosh and Auriel are both aspects of the Dragon God of Time, yes.

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:04 am

Whether Akatosh chooses to replace him is another matter. What we know is that at endgame Alduin is killed

Is he? When I played I remember seeing Alduin sitting just outside the entrance to Sovngarde, but he was also inside gobbling up souls. Unless this was a game bug, I took it to mean Alduin was still physically on Nirn and what you fought in Sovngarde was a projection of his soul. And upon defeating his soul, it was stripped of its golden "skin" and taken away by an unseen force.

I'm not sure we can say Alduin is dead, just that his body is MIA and his soul is in someone's possession.

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:14 am

Alduin was not banished into the future. He was destroyed by the Dovakhiin...

Zu' u unslaad!

Zu' u nis oblaan!

Whether Akatosh chooses to replace him is another matter. What we know is that at endgame Alduin is killed

Sahrot Thur Qahnaraan!

Dovakhiin los ok Dovahkriid

Even when Arngeir blows apart this theory? He basically says that Alduin didn't die and will return to fulfill his destiny, and since a dragon cannot permanently die until their soul is absorbed, Aldy's coming back. Granted, if KIMMUNE is anything, this kalpa will last rather long, but I see no reason why it shouldn't end. After all, if it doesn't end and Aldy's really dead, well ... get ready for the mad Godhead to awaken.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:16 pm

I bet there gonna go all symbolic, and have the Dovahkiin become a god who trapped the world eating dragon inside something like a metaphysical dragonsreach in order to save the world. Like a god of dragon keeping.

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:55 am

I bet there gonna go all symbolic, and have the Dovahkiin become a god who trapped the world eating dragon inside something like a metaphysical dragonsreach in order to save the world. Like a god of dragon keeping.

I think it depends on whether or not the Thalmor managed to de-god Talos. If they do, then Skyrim's Dragonborn will likely have to step up and replace him as the keystone god, which in his role would involve "keeping evil forever at bay" by warding Alduin by the very nature of his existence.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:39 am

I think it depends on whether or not the Thalmor managed to de-god Talos. If they do, then Skyrim's Dragonborn will likely have to step up and replace him as the keystone god, which in his role would involve "keeping evil forever at bay" by warding Alduin by the very nature of his existence.

What if Skyrims Dragonborn is Mer? Would the Thalmor still want to stick to their plan of wanting to go back to pre-existance?

» Tue May 08, 2012 3:20 am

What if Skyrims Dragonborn is Mer? Would the Thalmor still want to stick to their plan of wanting to go back to pre-existance?

Of course, they hate the Dunmer anyway and any Altmer or Bosmer that would not follow their views on the world wouldn't be a true Altmer/Bosmer anyway.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:18 pm

I'm doing the MQ in Skyrim again, and I've just retrieved the horn of Jurgen windcaller.

Now the grey beards have just done the "induction" for lack of a better word. Where they shout at the PC.
When I spoke to Angeir afterwards he did a rough translation for me, and said the phrase "long has the storm crown languished, you are ysmir now, Dragon of the north..

If I'm not mistaken, Storm Crown literally means Talos or vice versa. And wasn't Hjalti renamed Ysmir and then Talos?
Does this mean that the Greybeards acknowledge and accept the PC as the reincarnation or return of Talos?

It means that the Blades are morons, among other things. Yeah, it's just a title. Which happens to have been held by the previous Emperor. And at the present time there is effectively no Emperor. But... you're just an errand boy, shut up and sit down.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:07 pm

Is he? When I played I remember seeing Alduin sitting just outside the entrance to Sovngarde, but he was also inside gobbling up souls. Unless this was a game bug, I took it to mean Alduin was still physically on Nirn and what you fought in Sovngarde was a projection of his soul. And upon defeating his soul, it was stripped of its golden "skin" and taken away by an unseen force.

I'm not sure we can say Alduin is dead, just that his body is MIA and his soul is in someone's possession.

If his soul is in someone's possession...Peryite has it. I remember reading something about him being the main contender Akatosh's place in the next Kalpa. He's probably not too happy that Alduin's been defeated.

Just some spitballin here...

» Tue May 08, 2012 3:48 am

If his soul is in someone's possession...Peryite has it. I remember reading something about him being the main contender Akatosh's place in the next Kalpa. He's probably not too happy that Alduin's been defeated.

Just some spitballin here...

Peryite is the weakest of the Daedra, I doubt he could claim Alduins soul. If anybody has it it's Akatosh. Also I doubt the Aedra/Daedra are fully aware of what will happen the next Kalpa, so I doubt they would make decisions based on that. If they did they would just keep trying to force a next Kalpa to happen until they were happy.

» Tue May 08, 2012 10:10 am

Nobody has Alduin's soul. Akatosh isn't the omnipresent Dragon God, which we thought he was; but he is indeed Alduin: creative God of the next Kalpa. To establish his new framework, he' will cannibalize the current world - pull the pieces out of this one, and integrate them into the Crystal-like Law of his new system. This compulsive hunger, or intellect, grew out of Talos, so he is the mother of the Time Worm.

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:22 am

Peryite is the weakest of the Daedra, I doubt he could claim Alduins soul.

In this kalpa. But of course he has been biding his time -- and nobody cares to question the actions of a mere errand-boy, am I right?