Arcade elements, especially in shooters, end up destroying the fun. The Call of Duty series demonstrates this really well. Call of Duty 2 was absolutely amazing, every sweet kill, or near-impossible S&D match that you managed to win single-handedly was all you, not some remote-controlled toy, a button you had to click to unleash dogs, or a chopper gunner that shows you every enemy on the map and gives you a gun that enables you to rip through most walls. CoD has taken arcade-gaming to the extremes, and although some elements are slightly cool, you never get the satisfaction of feeling something to be premeditated and all you.

That said, I've seen some "minor" arcade elements from the Brink videos, and although they don't have the same level of influence, they show up all the time it seems.

1. Indicating the melee-button on an enemy player within range. As much as you want to help new players, this is a thing that will take more fun out the game, than it will add. Melee kills are supposed to be humiliation kills, and if you pretty much tell players when and what to hit, how can the killer feel truly satisfied? And also the victim will hardly feel 'pwned', knowing that the enemy was helped with the kill.

2. Throwing ammo, medicine(and revive) at a player. From what I saw in the clips, you need to have an indication on a friendly player that you can throw whatever thing you're carrying, to him. In this case, not only are you adding another arcade element (press this button and boom), but you are also making the game less tactical. Players could become much more efficient if they could place their items on the ground, for others to pick up. For things such as revives, it would also become a lot more difficult, but this would only mean that the players would actually have to master this skill, which when achieved, gives immense satisfaction.

Too many things in FPS games nowadays have become a given, and the only thing that needs to be mastered is the movement and the shooting. Previously in games such as Unreal Tournament you had to master the Translocator, and in games like Joint Operations, players were forced to plan ahead and be patient hiding in the bushes, in order to go on a 20 kill rampage - after which you would feel like a god. In modern games, it's all about charging in, getting a few kills, and hopefully a killstreak that allows you to get another 30 with hardly any thinking. The point of my post is that you really shouldn't make things easier for players, by giving them these arcade elements; they will all learn.

I agree with your way of thinking, buy I don't think the things you summed up are going to play a huge role in brink. In fact, i'm glad that they give "help" while aiding someone else. Atleast you won't waste your pips on people that are ignorant and run straight past your health pack.

The little help is ok for things like health and ammo and what not. I wish this was in other games like Battlefield (people have no clue how to throw down health or ammo). But it shouldn't be on the melee. Its a shooter not a hack and slash.

I agree that the melee should not be indicated. No shooter I have played has ever had an indicator for melee.

W:ET had an indicator when you could knife someone. Don't know if it's was backstab only, but it didn't disturb me at all. Getting backstabbed was always humiliating.

What do you even mean by arcade? It looks to me that you've just picked a bunch of features you dislike and have decided they're arcade.

A note to the original poster. I want to thank you for writing a thoughtful and concise post. Of which we need more of on this forum. Please continue to post new threads in the future as we can all tell you've put much forethought into the statement.

BUT, I humbly disagree with parts of what you said. I don't really feel the goal of the prompt with the melee was to baby the user. But to balance the encounter. People run smack into each other and it takes a second to realize it ALL the time. I don't see the prompt as a problem. I don't see it as an arcade element. More like that natural human spidey sense you'd get in real life that allows you to quickly react to the guy you just blindsided up close.

ALSO they might take that prompt out of the game complete. It might be in there for developer purposes for tweaking timing, and improving the melee system. So that's probably something we'll have to see when it's out. ALSO... In reality a melee kill is NOT a humiliation kill... when you end up close like that it's often a struggle for you life.

Addressing the throwing ammos and aids. I LOVE that system. It might not be for you. But maybe using a cover system ala rainbow six vegas isn't for you. Maybe you prefer Halo's strafe and shoot. I like cover systems myself. As far as the "THROW" prompt goes. It simplifies an otherwise complex action so players can focus on the action. My very favorite thing about Brink is you are allowed to do complex actions while entrenched in frenzied actioned without it becoming convoluted. Which is usually the case in other games.

And you're forgetting about all the other elements. The objective capturing and multiple abilities. You talked about melee and resupply and said that is holding the player's hand when actually the whole system is simplified allowing the players to have more range of command and do more.

It sounds to me if some of the systems in the game were clunky and difficult to use you'd think it'd be a better game.

And I say that respectfully.

So tell me. What would be the best way to implement some of your favorite features in Brink?

Saying melee kills are "supposed" to be humiliation kills, is purely your opinion, and just because you state it like a fact, doesn't make it one. In SD games, the knife has always been treated as last resort weapon, used for things like finishing off enemies in firefights, or gibbing downed enemies, rather than a insta-kill death machine that players can use to "humiliate" others with, like it is in games today. As mentioned above, there was one occasion where you could kill players in one hit in previous SD games, and that was with a backstab, so if you have a weapon that can only kill in one hit in certain circumstances, doesn't it only make sense to notify players when this circumstance occurs? Of course, this "notification" only applies to melee kills that will ALWAYS result in a OHK. Their are other instances where you could attach with your knife and get a OHK, that do not apply globally, (like knifing an unbuffed Light opposed to a Heavy) and therefore a notification would not be shown.


Actually, it makes the game more tactical, since you need to specify which players you are trying to supply. I think that requires a bit more thought than just stockpiling a pile of supplies for players to run back to when needed. It also is a much more efficient approach, since supplies are never wasted. Ho many times have you thrown a medkit of an ammo box on the ground, only to have the teammate it was intended for, run past it? This will not happen Brink. Every resupply will be meaningful, since they will always reach the intended player. This system also helps to promote teamwork more, since you need to be near teammate for the system to work.


You obviously haven't been following SD's whole philosophy behind Brink...Brink is supposed to be the game that even players who don't play a lot of team based shooters, or even shooters at all, will enjoy playing, and no matter how much you like or dislike certain features in a game, just throwing these types of players into a match and saying "good luck," and expect them not only to learn everything on their own without hassle, but to actually enjoy themselves, is a ridiculous expectation.

The features you complain about (among others) are ingenious innovations on SD's part. They have taken aspects of the game that almost feel like second nature to many of us, and showed us that just because they have been done a certain way for so long, doesn't mean that they are the right or only way to do them. All in all, your complaints seem baseless, using nothing more than personal opinion and bias to argue your points.

I feel that games that tell players how to interact with other players is wrong, the whole ammo/medicine thing does not bother me too much. I would've just liked an opportunity to toss some ammo/healthpack onto the ground as opposed to running up to the person - because I know there will be situations where that freedom of choice will be useful. But what bothers me is that players who now come rushing around a corner to find themselves crashing into a player, will no longer have to register whether it's an enemy, but rather will only have to respond to whether there's a big blue marker telling him 'KNIFE'.

I don't mind the interactions with objects; every game has that, but having three blue circles hovering in front of me on my three teammates, it just seems like we're being helped too much.

Amen to that, where is the time that i had to recognize my enemies by looking at their outfit instead of the giant red name above their heads.
However, I really think Brink is trying to eliminate a lot of the bad stuff that a lot of recent shooters have. A lot of people here love Brink because it's almost the opposite of COD.

So, true, i never thought of it like that. I geuss that is really true

You say "Arcade" as if it's a bad thing.

And where have you seen this so called "big blue marker?" Of all the vids I have seen, I have never seen an indicator telling the player when to knife.

I disagree. Arcade made most shooters become fun at all, because it made them accessible.


CoD 4 - Modern Warfare had taken arcade shooter gaming almost to perfection, imo.


If people could just put ammo and health on the ground GTA style, you make it just as arcade-ish. The direct interaction between two players is way better, I think.


And be called a camper for until you get kicked out of the lobby.


That is really only the latest COD-series games.

For those of you who think arcade elements ruins shooters, Quake 3, UT and TF2 would like a word with you.

Your view on what melee kills are used for are like, your opinion man.

Also, I've never seen the indicator for melee you're referring to.


Oh please, you're acting as if wasting your pips on ammo that might be wasted is somehow (lol @ the ridiculous overuse of this next word) skillful. It's an annoyance remover, plain and simple, just get over it.

It's really a shame. For such a well spoken poster the original poster of the topic's point is pretty much moot.

I will be glad to know exactly who I'm throwing ammo to in chaotic situations.

The melee indicator is a bit odd, missing is part of what makes melee difficult/rewarding, but I definitely like the buff indicator.

Yea I agree having a melee indicator sounded a bit odd.

Well to the others who say there isn't one, I think you are right.
Here is a vid where the melee indicator is not to be found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfvfIXTFWJc (At 6:16, player (solider) runs towards an enemy, no indicator)

But on the older vids, Container city, there is a shove indicator. That seems to have been removed in the newest videos/builds.

Brink still looks pretty arcade-y to me.

*DISCLAIMER*

I read all posts, don't yell at me.

*DISCLAIMER*

The things you mentioned in the OP just seem like you took all the features you might not like and called them arcade-ey.

Im down for anything that tells others who may be new at the game what button heals, resupplies or buffs your allies. (wish other games had this).

I admit, some people can be slow and a bit stupid at times, so all the help is welcome. Now how about a feature that yells "You are losing ground! Push up!" to players who have been siting behind the same wall for 10 minutes?

Yea that would be cool If the person wasn't doing anything, but if I'm sitting there killing any enemy that try's to get near the objective and the vocie says to keep going, I'd be like whhaattt???? Buh but but, my graveyard needs a fillin. :gun:

Maybe only for attackers?

Yea thatd probly work. Or even if it just goes by what your doin, like if your behind a rock for 3-5 mins (like you said) but haven't taken damage, killed anyone or helped a teammate. Then bring on the yelling and a pushin :bolt:

For those of you who 'have never seen the melee-indicator', take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dv3ruNjusE&feature=related from 0:57