Seen any... ELVES?

Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:05 am

So, yeah, racism in Skyrim. Confirmed encounters/quests involving it. The Nords are warm and welcoming to fellow humans but have always hated elves, as a rule. Avatars of Lorkhan such as Pelinal Whitestrake in particular usually despise all elves. The Nords have their reasons: Altmer had the whole slavery and casual mass murder thing going for them. Dunmer were always hated as foreign invaders, and the Dunmer population of Skyrim is now mostly refugees and their descendants, so they'd be viewed as contemptible aliens occupying soil long-watered by the blood of the children of the sky. They're unwelcome. And Bosmer... I think they do have a legitimate beef with them from some past war, but to be honest I think the main reason most Nords hate them is because they're so [censored] annoying.

Other potential sources:

-Imperials and Khajiit. Apart from that territorial dispute/fiasco alluded to in Leyawiin in Oblivion, the Khajiit were the first ones to secede from the Cyrodiilic Empire after the Mane was overthrown by a nomadic raiding group. Imperials would probably blame the Khajiit for striking the blow that led to the shattering of the Empire, and not distinguish between those native to Elsweyr and ones actually born in the province they occupy. Most Skyrim Khajiiti most likely don't give half a crap about politics, but will hate the Imperials for what they view as persecution.

-Dunmer and Argonians, for obvious reasons. As a consequence of their long history of persecution and enslavement of the Argonians, the Dunmer were the central focus of quite a bit of anger for many Argonians to begin with. All it took was one violent-minded Hist to conduct a swift and massive invasion of Morrowind when it was cut down to its knees and incapable of mounting an organized defense. Friction on both sides, possibly hatred of native Argonians by their emigrant fellows for their disgust with the Black Marsh's sudden imperialism and hypocrisy. They keep Dunmer slaves now, over there. They view it as poetic justice, while everyone else just views it as an abomination.

-Nords and Bretons. Haven't heard too much about actual hatred in the lore, but Nords certainly don't like Bretons. They're inherently distrustful of magic, apart from the sacred Voice, and furthermore Bretons were created as a side effect of frequent cross-breeding between aldmer and humans, creating a race justifiably nicknamed "half-mer." Bretons are just not popular among them. They're also very commonly viewed as snooty or pretentious by other races. "Charming" is the best they get. They don't do manly. Nord women can do manly better than the manliest Breton. Only Orsimer women are manlier. (Then again some Orc women are manlier than even Orc men. Malacath figures you can't have too much of a good thing.)

Orcs and Redguards are on decent terms with pretty much everyone, though, so I don't see much friction with either. Orcs are often viewed as savage, stupid, ugly, filthy etc. but are well-regarded for their strength and conviction. Redguards are usually viewed as friendly and able, at worst they'd be considered crafty and untrustworthy. No specific hatreds, really, and orcs have been accepted long enough by men that it'd be unlikely to find specific hatreds of them, just a mutual cultural aversion.

Apart from interracial conflicts, conflicts within an ethnic group are also important. The Dunmer are an exiled people. I can imagine three main groups: respected elders who are old enough to remember the Tribunal's rule firsthand, who lament the loss of their home and their pride. More mild-mannered Dunmer who increasingly follow human ways, and simply want to integrate and move on with their lives, mourning the loss of their culture but discarding it nonetheless. And then a younger generation, a group of kids raised on tales of the homeland with an "I'm so Dunmer I [censored] ash" mentality. They're obsessed with their past and continue to follow the lessons of the Tribunal, worshiping them as esteemed ancestors now that their godhood is no more. They wear restored Ordinator and Great House armor, raise Netches for their leather despite the great expense of doing it in such an inhospitable climate for the animal, and frequently form vigilante groups (which sometimes end up as lynch mobs) to roam the country side and punish evildoers (or whoever seems to be a rich pushover).

Nords: Civil war, obviously.

Imperials: Hawks vs. Doves. Retake the seceded lands and restore order, or work on problems at home? Do your part. Get in a fistfight over it at the pub.

Altmer: Xenophobic vs. Integrationist. Some see the centuries-long embargo as detrimental to their people, others simply hate foreigners enough to not care.

Argonians: Those triumphant over the invasion of Morrowind, and some who dislike their empire for the crimes committed against the Dunmer. Those who left the Marsh do not hear the Hist, though. They couldn't possibly understand. The Argonians did mount the best defense against the Oblivion gates, after all. Maybe the Hist think this is the best way to protect their neighbors, and why not indulge their children in a bit of cruel ego-stroking in the process?

Khajiit: Same deal. Many would be upset over the coup.

Bosmer: Don't see any.

Bretons: Perhaps divisions along the Synod/College of Whispers?

Redguards: Don't see any.

Orcs: Again, not much potential.

So what are your thoughts?
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leni
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:39 am

Bosmer VS Khajiit

Orc VS Redguards

Orc VS most other races honestly

Khajiit VS Argonian

Altmer VS most other races

Imperial VS most other races

Basically everyone hates everyone, like in real life.
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Kortknee Bell
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:10 am

hah, yeah. that kinda fits in nicely from OB. I wonder if they planned there to be this kind of struggle between men and mer before they covcieved of SK.
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Richard
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:46 am

Bretons: Perhaps divisions along the Synod/College of Whispers?

Just because bretons are proficient in magic doesn't mean that they give two [censored] about those *sneer* imperial institutions.
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vicki kitterman
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:37 am

Please, the Bretons have been hiding under the Empire's skirt for centuries.
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Justin Hankins
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:51 am

Basically everyone hates everyone, like in real life.

Siggin'.

It's going to be fun. If my character ever sees a Dunmer slave, he's so pointing out the irony and so not putting the slave out of his misery.
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Emma Pennington
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:36 am

With the gritty visuals and animation I *really* hope they bring back the xenophobia, it'll be quite jarring if that new badass Orc talks like a metropolitan dandy.
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Tasha Clifford
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:42 am

Please, the Bretons have been hiding under the Empire's skirt for centuries.

Bretons hate Orcs. They dont like Redguards all that much either.
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Kevin Jay
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:38 am

The main reason the Nords hate Elves is because of a mytheo-ideological conflict between men and mer.
The Nords worship Shor (Lorkhan), the deity responsible for creating the world, and they see his sacrifice and creation as bestowing the great gift of potential to them.
The mer, on the other hand (excepting the Dunmer), think that Lorkhan stole their previous divine perfection and trapped them as fallible, temporal mortals.

Men think they're the rising ape, Mer think they're the fallen angel, to be loose with an anology, and both attribute their state to Lorkhan.
This opposed view leads to endless animosity. And they do have a history of conflict and antagonism.
(So yes, mirglif, this was planned long before Skyrim.)

And yeah OP, the Nords aren't too fond of the Bretons, as the Bretons originated as the offspring of captured Nord slaves and Aldmer. They've got elf-blood in them, and the Nords dislike it.

Historically, the Dunmer and Nords have been enemies because of territorial disputes, but I'll be interested to see how that changes with the Dunmer becoming refugees.

As for Orcs, some of them are attempting to become more civilized, and are turning away from Malacath worship (God of Pariahs and Outcasts) to once again worship Trinimac, their leader from the days when they were a group of Aldmer, and not hideous green monsters.
Most of the Orcs outside of Orsinimium think this is traitorous heresy.
So there'll be some good conflict there, hopefully, although that was taking place two hundred years before Skyrim... Hopefully it will have developed in that time.
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Shelby McDonald
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:51 am

Bosmer vs everyone on this forum, apparently.
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Stat Wrecker
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:32 pm

I'm really excited to experience the new social climate of Skyrim. Learning how the races perceive others was one of my favorite parts of Morrowind.
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clelia vega
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:27 am

i hope that they include the slavery of elven kind in this. If they do I am going to sit back and enjoy what hey had coming to them. Poetic justice indeed. At the same time I will love the dramatic twist in lore and story. GREAT idea.
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Nick Jase Mason
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:48 pm


It's going to be fun. If my character ever sees a Dunmer slave, he's so pointing out the irony and so not putting the slave out of his misery.


That is worth sigging too, and is so true, I am doing my first playthrough as a an Argonian like I did in Oblivion and I am totally doing this.
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Michelle Chau
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:01 am

Now here is a fun question: If Elves are slaves in Skyrim, would you buy one if you could? lol
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Anne marie
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:56 pm

Please, the Bretons have been hiding under the Empire's skirt for centuries.


Yes, the first thing we Bretons learn about combat is how to flee. That's because we're smart and prefer others to do the dirty work for us.
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Penny Flame
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:01 pm

Bretons hate Orcs. They dont like Redguards all that much either.

Hence the hiding like scared children while Mr. Tiber Septim sorts out those nasty bullies. I do declare, Mr. Septim, I do believe you've given me the vapors.
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GRAEME
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:46 pm

Now here is a fun question: If Elves are slaves in Skyrim, would you buy one if you could? lol


Hehe, yes, yes I would.
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carla
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:59 am

Hence the hiding like scared children while Mr. Tiber Septim sorts out those nasty bullies. I do declare, Mr. Septim, I do believe you've given me the vapors.

Uh no, do you even know the lore? Bretons were bad asses in Daggerfall. Not to mention they basically saved the Empire from Camoran Usurper. The Direnni Hegemony were the most fierce competition and enemy of the first Alessian Empire. I could keep going, or you could read The Pocket Guide To The Empire on High Rock.
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katie TWAVA
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:08 am

Now here is a fun question: If Elves are slaves in Skyrim, would you buy one if you could? lol


High Elf: Boss, my shackles are too tight, I can't use my hands.

You: *untie shackles of silence*

High Elf: *cast recall*

You: Damn it!
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..xX Vin Xx..
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:44 pm

Great list, though I do think you may have missed some.

Nord and Imperials - I think this may have been an obvious one. Secessionist Nords should and most likely will hate Imperials in general for what they see as oppression caused by their Empire. I could imagine diehard secessionists going around lynching stray Imperials in the countryside, whilst in secessionist-held outposts and towns, any Imperials would be widely held in distrust and contempt. Imperials may feel the same about secessionists but probably not the Nord race as a whole - after all, loyalist Nords are quite welcome in the Empire. However, general cultural aversion to the brutish, uncivilised (in Imperial eyes) Nords, as seen in Oblivion ("put a few more hairs on a Nord and you've got a bear"), should be present.

Orcs and Imperials - Orcs have generally resented Imperials for stalling on and delaying the bureacratic process of legally establishing Orsinium as a province. With the downfall of the Empire this may have died down, but I can imagine there being an orc legacy of coolness toward Imperials.

Redguards - at least before the Oblivion crisis, Hammerfell was largely split between more cosmopolitan, Imperial-influenced coastal cities in the south-east (near Cyrodil's border) and the poor, more arid peoples of the northern deserts sticking with the firm traditions and cultural heritage of Yokuda. Civil wars between Redguard city-states have broken out in the past because of this (although I can't name the cities or the dates; I've fallen behind on my lore). I could see some minor dialogue options exposing this split in Skyrim, with some southern Redguards favouring the Imperial effort or the loyalists and being chided by their northern countrymen for it.

Great thread; hope racism is as important in Skyrim as it's been made to sound :)
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R.I.p MOmmy
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:13 am

Now here is a fun question: If Elves are slaves in Skyrim, would you buy one if you could? lol

Adoring slave replacing adoring fan? I would buy them with my evil wizard or assassin to use for target practice lol
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Misty lt
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:46 am

Adoring slave replacing adoring fan? I would buy them with my evil wizard or assassin to use for target practice lol




you can always use those elves to provide you with ambient music for your mansion hehe.

http://www.elfwood.com/art/n/e/nee/lotr_elf_comm_c_m.jpg (viewer discretion is advised due to partial nudity)
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Camden Unglesbee
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:30 am

High Elf: Boss, my shackles are too tight, I can't use my hands.

You: *untie shackles of silence*

High Elf: *cast recall*

You: Damn it!

No wonder why Magic is considered cowardly.
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Horse gal smithe
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:35 am

http://www.elfwood.com/art/n/e/nee/lotr_elf_comm_c_m.jpg (viewer discretion is advised due to partial nudity)

Something is wrong with thy link
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loste juliana
 
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:09 am

dunmer all the way. i am going to kill every argonian i see
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Carlitos Avila
 
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