Self Discovery like Morrowind returned : V - Skyrim

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:23 am

Not to single you out, just in general... But yeah well - fortunately this isn't a 'Morrowind' remake - seriously it gets tiring reading what 'Morrowind' zealots demand 'Skyrim' should be and contain. I have to wonder sometimes why you 'Morrowind' fans even come to the 'Skyrim' forum - it's quite obvious the moment this game ships - every single one of you will be in here, bashing it for this and bashing it for that.. Can't you at least wait until Bethesda releases more information on 'Skyrim' or gameplay videos that show the game mechanics in action.

I understand were your coming from and I am the original creator of this thread and I am a very big Morrowind fan, I still liked Oblivion was good and to me Skyrim is a big step in the right direction, the only way I was saying for improvements is to take some leafs out of MW's book. The concept of finding things without a compass pointing you that way and fast travel by the means of a cultural approach rather whenever you felt like it.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:34 am

Skyrym contain another big bobby trap:

The fact that whenever a misison is given to you the game calculate where you ve been and give you a new dungeon.
This lead to 2 conclusions:

Skyrim will have few missions.
Skyrim will be more holed than gruyere or a rotten piece of wood eaten by thermites.

What wrong with people that don t like to explore ?
What wrong with people that like to explore by themselves?
Whats wrong with the fact that i may have accidentaly already have done the mission OR screwed it ?

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:32 am

I've always found places quickly in Morrowind, the map really isn't that big and the vaguest of directions are still enough to find the place, bar one quest which I have in mind. The great thing about this method is that I found other interesting places on the way, where I then proceeded to scrap my plans and explore/loot the new areas found.

I was going to post, but this guy came up with a post some months ago EXACTLY with what I was going to say.

:P

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:40 pm

Morrowind had just as many flaws in gameplay as Oblivion but for some reason Morrowind is heralded by many as so much better than Oblivion and I'm not seeing it. I was disappointed with Morrowind when I played it. I expected it to feel like an improvement of Daggerfall like Daggerfall was an improvement of Arena but Morrowind's gameplay was less than stellar and the only thing I liked about the game was it's really good Main story line. Oblivion had many improvements over Morrowind and they tried new systems in the Oblivion that were a step in the right direction but were just a bit off in their first incarnation. Fast travel was much better idea than Siltstriders though siltstriders were still better due to fast travel being too much. Fast travel should've been limited to major cities and it would've surpassed the siltstriders. As for quest markers, much better than Morrowind but the magic compass and quest markers showing the way in dungeons was once again just too much. If they make quest markers show you the general area of a quest and not the item or npc directly it will be much better than Morrowind. Combat was an improvement by far from morrowind and the combat in Skyrim seems to be an improvement from Oblivion as well. Frankly Morrowind was a good game because of it's main quest line but Oblivion had a much better world and side quests. With the changes to Fast Travel and Quest Markers that I explained, Skyrim is already a better game than Morrowind.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:29 am

Morrowind had just as many flaws in gameplay as Oblivion but for some reason Morrowind is heralded by many as so much better than Oblivion and I'm not seeing it. I was disappointed with Morrowind when I played it. I expected it to feel like an improvement of Daggerfall like Daggerfall was an improvement of Arena but Morrowind's gameplay was less than stellar and the only thing I liked about the game was it's really good Main story line. Oblivion had many improvements over Morrowind and they tried new systems in the Oblivion that were a step in the right direction but were just a bit off in their first incarnation. Fast travel was much better idea than Siltstriders though siltstriders were still better due to fast travel being too much. Fast travel should've been limited to major cities and it would've surpassed the siltstriders. As for quest markers, much better than Morrowind but the magic compass and quest markers showing the way in dungeons was once again just too much. If they make quest markers show you the general area of a quest and not the item or npc directly it will be much better than Morrowind. Combat was an improvement by far from morrowind and the combat in Skyrim seems to be an improvement from Oblivion as well. Frankly Morrowind was a good game because of it's main quest line but Oblivion had a much better world and side quests. With the changes to Fast Travel and Quest Markers that I explained, Skyrim is already a better game than Morrowind.

I do believe you have smacked the nail on the head with that big rant

You have said many things this thread as in one big post. I agree with all of it.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:12 am

How about because I like exploring? Note, I said exploring, not running around in circles trying to find a specific place with only vague clues. I like going off into the wilderness and finding places. I like dungeon-diving, Daedric shrine hunting, stumbling across small settlements, landmarks, and quests, and general open-endedness. I don't like my questing to feel like a chore to find a specific place. I also said I wanted to do stuff, not have the "bad guys" automatically killed. I want to dungeon-dive for a quest that involves dungeon-diving, not search with few encounters, excluding wildlife, little loot, and little variation for the dungeon and find out it's puny and not worth the trip.

I love exploring, but trying to find a place as I mentioned for a quest is not what I consider exploring. I specifically already stated I love exploring but that I want aimlessly running around to be for the sake of aimlessly running around, not for the sake of aimlessly aiming for something. My question is why do people take my reluctance to run around the map without knowing where I'm going as a dislike for exploration? May I ask you what's the point of an open-ended map if you think exploring must always be a side thing that occurs while you're trying to focus on a quest and not just an option that's there? I explore very much, but when I'm trying to do a quest, I'm trying to do a quest. When I want to explore, I'll explore; when I want to quest, I'll quest.

As for immersion, your sense of immersion is porbably different from mine. I find enjoying what I'm doing to be far more immersive than being forced to explore when I want to do a quest. If I don't find something fun, I'm not immersed. When I'm having fun, I lose track of my surroundings, as I always have in Oblivion. My personal opinion is that Oblivion is a more immersive game because that's what I've experienced. Running around the same landscape searching for the same type of location for the same type of kill or fetch quest as always doesn't immerse me. It's the reason I get bored and turn off a game. I'm trying to play a game, and I expect gameplay. If I'm doing a quest, I expect to do a quest. It's as simple as that.

Well, thats why I said to make the map markers optional, but to also have written and spoken directions. That way both sides win. People like myself who like the challange of searching to find what we're after can disable the markers, yet still have directions as to where to go.

The problem with Oblivion, is that alot of quests have no notable landmarks of writting/spoken instruction and solely rely on quest markers.

I understand that some people like yourself may not enjoy the feeling of being lost in search of something, and thats ok. What I was getting at is to make both styles of play possible.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:46 am

one could use a middle of the road method. firstly i think it's pretty fair to say fast travel between the major cities and such should be in, whether this takes the form of mages guilds and boats or directly is pretty irrelevant as it's purely dues ex machina anyways.
secondly putting important artifacts in difficult to reach or impossible to find places is pretty stupid. if it's an important artifact it's probably displayed prominently at the bottom of the dungeon etc.
thirdly instead of marking directly or not marking at all why not give an shaded area on the map in a circle around were location is, and more specific directions in the journal with landmarks etc. your not made to guess entirely nor is it impossible to find like that one main quest in morrowind with the burial bow that no one could find. problems solved.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:14 pm

Well, a map that doesn't magically self-update your location and a compass would be perfect.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:34 am

I personally hated how Morrowind dealt with giving you directions. I can't remember many occasions where I didn't waste a good number of minutes trying to figure out where the hell I was supposed to go. I don't mind finding my own way inside of a dungeon, but I really don't like to waste my time finding someone's house. If an NPC tells me to go somewhere, and they know where it is, then it should be marked on my map.

I honestly doubt we'll be seeing the return of the magic compass, seeing as the game will have disappearing HUD.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:43 am

I don't think that all quests will be Dynamically scaled, only a handful of the side quests at most.

I would love a more Morrowind like exploration. I loved the vague directions, sure they could of been better as could the finding it in your journal. But still it felt more immersive to me.