Skyrim should be a mystical magical world like Morrowind, and not fully mainstreamed down to xbox 6 year old console players like Oblivion.

I want a damn compass, but the pinpoint GPS markers have got to go. I can even see a mark on your map that's more or less exact at times, but no compass marker.

I would also like the chance to use the feature that allows you to set your own marker to good use (i.e., there should be some quests, and a few unnamed quests that vaguely describe what's around a location so that you have to use your own navigation skills and mark your target based on reference points)

This.
The map markers appearing on the compass took a great deal of mystery out of the surroundings, and allowed the player to essentially move from one marker to the next without taking in any of the surrounding environment, 'autopiloting'.
Also once you had discovered the map markers in a particular area you had absolutely no incentive what so ever to ever return to the area (oblivions non handplaced loot/landscape also aided this feeling).
I liked how in Morrowind there was always a sense of wonder about what was over the next ridge, oblivion lost this completely.

Yeah, there are some things in-game that should take months years of owning the game, and multiple playthroughs to actually come-across.

Especially if they drop Oblivion's horrid level-scaling (I love the game, not hating on it. The scaling situation is awful, though) and have some in-game areas that crawl with high-level enemies and lucrative dungeons, so that when you finally make that really cool character and stick with him long enough to be able to traverse said areas, and you start finding out what's out there, you can have that feeling of "holy [censored]!" when you come across somewhere really special that a green PC would never have been able to get to.

How is that a fake challenge? using landmarks to find locations, and searching around tombs or ruins for a specific item isn't a fake challange! It's a REAL challange.

I remeber the adventure I had delving into the dwemer ruins near balmora trying to find the dwemer puzzle box. It was exciting making my way through the mist, finding the bridge that lead to the ruins, killing the crazy guy on the bridge, then having to avoid bandits and such while searching the ruins to find the damn thing.

It was time consuming, but it was intellectualy stimulating.

Oblivions quests felt more like a chore, how much more exciting would 'lifting the vale' be if you had to find the rock shaped like a dragons foot without a magical marker showing the way?


IMO 'fake' challanges and things like adding extra health the a badguy just because you leveled up.

Why even bother having a large open world then? Why not just have a 'map screen' and you click on a dungeon and your placed there magicaly you kill badguys then leave and bam back at the map.

The whole point of having an open world like in TES games is for the immersion, it makes a game more enjoyable. some people want to actualy explore rather than have a big marker point out the exact location.
I say make the quest markers optional, and give some real directions in dialogue and journal updates. That way everyone wins.

Say you are in a mountain range.
Even with a geographical map of the area and compass you can still get lost. actually if you are not paying attention to landmarks you might get lost at some point.

What happens in games is that it marks you on the map. So you never get lost.. you never can get lost in oblivion. That's is what is missing. Just the ability to not know where you are at some point.

If I had that I might be happy.

How about because I like exploring? Note, I said exploring, not running around in circles trying to find a specific place with only vague clues. I like going off into the wilderness and finding places. I like dungeon-diving, Daedric shrine hunting, stumbling across small settlements, landmarks, and quests, and general open-endedness. I don't like my questing to feel like a chore to find a specific place. I also said I wanted to do stuff, not have the "bad guys" automatically killed. I want to dungeon-dive for a quest that involves dungeon-diving, not search with few encounters, excluding wildlife, little loot, and little variation for the dungeon and find out it's puny and not worth the trip.

I love exploring, but trying to find a place as I mentioned for a quest is not what I consider exploring. I specifically already stated I love exploring but that I want aimlessly running around to be for the sake of aimlessly running around, not for the sake of aimlessly aiming for something. My question is why do people take my reluctance to run around the map without knowing where I'm going as a dislike for exploration? May I ask you what's the point of an open-ended map if you think exploring must always be a side thing that occurs while you're trying to focus on a quest and not just an option that's there? I explore very much, but when I'm trying to do a quest, I'm trying to do a quest. When I want to explore, I'll explore; when I want to quest, I'll quest.

As for immersion, your sense of immersion is porbably different from mine. I find enjoying what I'm doing to be far more immersive than being forced to explore when I want to do a quest. If I don't find something fun, I'm not immersed. When I'm having fun, I lose track of my surroundings, as I always have in Oblivion. My personal opinion is that Oblivion is a more immersive game because that's what I've experienced. Running around the same landscape searching for the same type of location for the same type of kill or fetch quest as always doesn't immerse me. It's the reason I get bored and turn off a game. I'm trying to play a game, and I expect gameplay. If I'm doing a quest, I expect to do a quest. It's as simple as that.

I am back from a loong sleep and see my thread has increased by over double the posts, I have seen so many views and opinions on the matter so maybe we should see if we can make sure this idea or ideas are pushed forward and noticed.

(To clarify it is not make it like morrowind again which some people have said in earlier posts, it is merely us saying that they should look back on it and take some of its discovery elements as a lot of people here have definitely agreed with it)

- Take away map markers if your in the cave/mine/building etc to give that more sense of finding things
- Supply markers to locations only if it is very specific to the quest otherwise supply map markers to nearby landmarks that surround it (Anybody remember the ob quest to that snow fortress for the count in bruma? you had to find a statue then a cave etc was great)
- An option to toggle off the whole map marker compass thing entirely
- Fast travel could be disabled or used depending if toggled or maybe used for a hardcoe mode like in fallout new vegas, but if like I have read in other threads I have noticed that it is mentioned skyrim will have a bigger culture feel to it. If this is the case the travel should be rethinked into what they use, the boats or other means or transportation.
- Journal entries can contain directions away to support you on your way to even a map marked location (this could be to help you find the specific item i.e. it could be a riddle to open a door to it or it could be a description of its whereabouts in the cave/mine etc.

Maybe Oblivion made it too easy, but man, there were caves in Morrowind that I spent real days in looking for some stupid such and such.

I like the realism, but I also got real stuff to do.

I’m sure some crafty game designers could find a happy medium, like maybe just a function that you could toggle on or off.

“No way! I wanna find it on my own!...” “…Ok [censored] this where the hell is it!?!”

I still think that a colored area on the map should be used instead of specific marker locations while also removing the compass indicator. This would give people a healthy amount of quest help while still keeping some sense of mystery and exploration alive.

+1 for in between Morrowind and Oblvion. They should only use it for external locations - entrances to dungeons interiors, or to point to a city/city district. The option to turn it completely off for the hardcoe guys would be nice too.

[censored] it people, you can turn off the compass!?!

But running around the same landscape going to the same type of location for the same type of kill or fetch quest immerses you? :glare:

I don't think it's really exploring when you go look for the quest location in Morrowind. It's more like going for a adventure, not just going to do a quest like in Oblivion.

I have posted a poll on here now to get like a summarised concept of everything and if I have missed anything out just tell me

Brilliant! :goodjob:

Actually this is a good idea as well, I think we should all put this into one big idea and put it forward. Could give everyone a slice of happiness whilst playing the next game

Yeah I was thinking along those lines myself.


HAHAHA

I remember wandering around in morrowind for at least half an hour looking for the moon and star cave. But there was a sense of accomplishment when i did eventually make my way there. i say bring back the directions without a fricken arrow holding your hand the entire game, or at least an option to turn it off.

This. I've thought of this myself, it would be a good mix of both...
Some colored areas should be larger/smaller than others, depending on how vague the description was, and you would have to find out more info to narrow it down.

Instead of quest markers, the quest designers can draw a specific polygon overlay over the map area, and shade it so that in the edge area it gradually fades into the map.

Depending on the specific areas, the polygon shapes can differ, so it has to be defined by hand for each quest stage.

I actually like this idea, its strange how we started off on simple alternatives and then have stretched to a more complex approach but still for the end user an easy solution as well as engaging =]

Perfect.

I dont want a pizza slice guiding my way, but a compass would be ok. As for maps, I dont mind following directions and exploring -- but once i discover something have it marked on the map so I dont have to follow directions every time I try to find a place. With the amount of dungeons and land marks in tes it would get very very annoying if I repeatedly had to wander around to re-visit places.

Would be nice to fast travel with trade caravans too, with the option of getting out at any point of the trip rather than the final destination.

Option 3 and 5 for me, as well as Option 2 and 3 about fast-travel. I'd like having boats and perhaps even horse-carriage as main methods of transportation for a fee. Preferrably not as abusable as Morrowind, or as way-too-easy map-access like Oblivion. Makes me teleport to 10 locations in one minute flat finishing missions at record speeds. If Fast Travel is preferred, then I want it very much limited. Like being able to fast-travel once every 24 hours, with Wait times being at the least risky or maybe even not acceptable.

Allow map markers for the whereabouts of the main building or place and then allow you to find the item etc on your own

This is a decent method, but may also pinpoint a little too easily. Depending on navigation like actual signs, this could either be perfect, or only decent/acceptable.

Finding locations/landmarks surrounding the actual point of interest

Agreed about this, I'd hate having NPCs stay in one spot all day though, or only 2-3 places to be at. Makes it still very unrealistic. Instead, work-arounds could help. If there's a guild or faction the NPC belongs to, they can get you in touch with the member, as you would probably expect realistically. This method also depends on the execution of quests.


Hope this helps.