Think I finally understand how and why confusion re: max settlement population exists, with stated formula 10 + Charisma seemingly to not always apply.

The simple answer is it doesn't because the formula works only as additive, never subtractive.

e.g. you only ever GAIN settlers this formula, never LOSE them - and all temp charisma buffs are permanent far as formula checking, then adding new settlers.

For example, say you have base Charisma 10 and beacon on at one or more settlements. At various intervals through game day, game checks your charisma score - whatever it is at the time - to see if new settlers can be added.

• If you have NEVER, ever worn any Charisma closing even for 1 second, or taken any Char boosting drug like mentats - then your max pop at all settlements truly will be 10 + Charisma - in this example 20 max per settlement
• -
• But If you HAVE worn any item that adds Charisma boost temporarily, or taken graqe mentats when selling loot, etc - this is how and why the confusion exists.
• Far as game is concerned, moment it checks your charisma score is what is used for 10+Charisma formula
• -
• If you took a graqe mental for example which boosts char another +5, and also wore +4 clothing, you now have a temp charisma of 19. Which now means your max settler limit during this temp boost period = 10 + charisma = 10 + 19 = 29 settler maximum
• -
• If the game just happens to check for new settler addition at this time, it will believe you are under you max settler cap and allow the addition of beacon attracted settler, one you manually move, etc. Once your charisma drops back to normal though, the formula is never checked to reapply new limit and you never lose those extra settlers.
• you can't attract more settlers or manually move them to settlements at or beyond your 'base' charisma cap, but once those settlers are there, they don't disappear even if charisma drops lower than the formula used at time of adding new settler

So there you have it - the formula technically is correct. But the reason people far exceed 20 setters max is because any boost to charisma for even one nanosecond will allow the high probability that new settlers will be added when game checks and sees your boosted charisma allows for more settlers.

Couple side benefits - want to move a companion somewhere but can't because settlement you want them to go to is maxed out? Pop a graqe mentat - unless you are already at your graqe mental boosted max, this will make game think settlement is now under max cap and you can now send your companion or other settler manually to that location.

Offhand from vanilla, non-modded game, I can only think of +4 from clothing and +5 from graqe mentats, which makes effective max 29 settlers per settlement. There may be other char boosts you can take but don't recall offhand other than these two.

Yea but how do you explain people who have 30+ settlers? One guy has 62 settlers

That was going to be my question as well. Are there enough chems in the Commonwealth to boost CHA to 52?

There are PA paint jobs that boost charisma. It might take those into account?

Perhaps it is the Infinite Settlers mod.

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/828/?

Simple answer - Mods for items / clothing that allow you to wear more than +4 from clothes and +5 with graqe mentats.

In my game, I use Armorsmith Extended plus Crafting Workbenches - two highly popular and very common mods - which allows for lot more clothing items to be worn at once with charisma effect. With 10 SPECIAL charisma + clothing + graqe mentat, my charisma at the moment is 24. Which means my limit is 34 for settlers.

The guy you are likely referring to is the one with fantastic starlight drive video with the mega construction. He said was on PS4 and no mods, but admitted using the workbench glitch to infinitely loop settlement max size in order to get around size limit. What effect that glitch has other than increasing settlement budget is unknown but clearly one side effect is it also glitches charisma score or increases population budget as well.

*Edit - AID items also stack charisma. Beer +!, graqe mentats +5, day tripper +3, x-cell +2, etc al stack on top.

I can get easily charisma to 30+ using just the ones I listed above, making my new settler max = 40

Without using a mod uncapping settler population, you can use vanilla game + mods that allow wearing more char clothing to easily get into 40+ settler territory.

To repeat - it is simple and fast to test. Instead of bringing up one exception where even the person who posted that exception said he used glitches, why not just pop a graqe mental and test what I just said and see for yourself?

This doesn't seem correct to me. I have 34 settlers at my biggest settlement. My base charisma is currently rank 6. I have a +5 charisma outfit (Reginald's Suit, Fashionable Glasses, Trillby hat), and I've used graqe mentats like twice. I basically never use chems. I also have Destroyer's Helmet which is another +1 charisma, but obviously can't be worn at the same time as the trillby hat.

This gives me 10+base charisma+outfit+graqe mentats=10+6+5+5=26

As I said, my biggest is 34, and I have a few others that are between 26 and 34. There are also other settlements that are far bigger than mine. As mentioned above, I've also seen one with 62.

Edit - note that I am using no mods at all

Also note that the aforementioned settlement with 62 settlers was built with no mods as well.

Two replies - the first is I am not insisting my answer is one and only explanation. it is however one easy explanation that is testable, repeatable, and easily verified as very common, simple way to get far more than the 20 max people assume and hence believe formula is 'wrong'

Second - that one exception gets brought up a lot, and not judging that fantastic builder at all - but as I said in my post - that author admitted he was on PS4 and couldn't use budget mod, so he used the infinite workbench glitch to glitch his way to infinite settlement size. In my opinion, it is not credible nor reasonable to use as the source of your exception an instance where the person admitted game glitches were used.

A mod is something that goes beyond game mechanics but in specific, controlled ways. A glitch may have many other side effects. Citing the 62 population glitched construction guy as source for why 10+Cha formula is wrong is not in my opinion credible. There are too many unexplained consequences of using glitches.

For your 34 example when charisma boost is only 26, I don't know. Or, I do know how you might have gotten it, but take you at your word you never used other chems. With a base charisma of only 6, I can easily achieve 40+ settlers using noting but the vanilla chems stacking + clothing mod allowing two more charisma clothes items (boots and undergarment)

My post was not 'this is only way' you can increase settler pop, but one simple explanation how and why so many people get more than the 20 settlers assumed to be 'normal' max.

the guy with 64 settlers is on PS4 so no mods there. Glitch is mostly likely explanation for that one.

I've read you can also get more than 20 via "sending" people to other settlements, although I don't know if that's a glitch or exploit method as well. Just what I read.

The thing re: the workbench/scrapping/tab-sotring glitch is that some people may not realize/didn't realize there was a glitch until long after. I mean, tossing stuff onto the ground to scrap it initially, never noticing what it was doing. By that I just mean while I'd agree that the glitch could be part of a max settler increase effect and thus isn't a good data "source", it could be causing confusion in general reporting because some aren't even aware they "used" the glitch, vs. the video poster you mentioned knowing/admitting it.

He hit the 62 settlers and then started building from what I remember. Not building everything first and then getting more.

That said, good info here. I'll be using it to make some decent sized settlements.

My settler amounts seems to be mostly accurate with the calculation and stat boosts. However my Sunny farm for some reason has a bit over, think it's 21, than I recall ever having as my charisma score. I'm starting to wonder if the pre-installed named settlers (not the places where you have just Settler's, but named people) don't count against it but that'd need testing with abernathy.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I did some of that "toss on the ground to scrap" in sunny farm since I at that time had abundancy of road leathers and raider leathers and back then no way to scrap them in the scrapping bench.

He hit the 62 before building the mega starlight drive complex - yes.

But highly unlikely given that he is clearly a builder, loves settlements, and knew about the glitch that he did not use the glitch before trying hand at the mega construction at smaller scale builds.

e.g. he glitched population max before starting the mega construction, then seeing he had a good opportunity, then used that location with high settlers to build his mega mall at starlight drive.

That would imply it has something to do with the workbench glitch then.

I don't use the "limit glitch" and recently got 41 settlers at The Castle. I have never raised my charisma to more than 18.

6 of them are Companions. 4 (5?) are named/minutemen.

edit: Just realized I have 53 settlers at sanctuary. No companions or "sent to" settlers.

had 31 settlers with 7 Charisma, and wear clothing that gives +3 when in speech checks. no mods.

I had 28 settlers in a settlement with 6 charisma and I've never used a cha increaser.

Sometimes bugs happen

No, the person in question with 62 settlers is on PS4. No mods. Also, he did not attempt to get the settlers. He simply set up the settlement and played elsewhere, but he discovered he had 62 when he finally checked back on that settlement (Starlight Drive-In in this case). He mentions that he actually had 65 on returning but sent three elsewhere. He also mentions that most of his settlements are quite high.

To be honest, I suspect the PS4 version has some system-specific bugs and exploits. For example, the shipment duplication glitch only seems to work on the PS4 as I have never seen anyone do it on XB1 and I cannot do it on PC.

Keep in mind that the CHA + 10 limit is stated in the official guidebook. However, it is possible that that specific detail changed before the actual game shipped as this happens from time to time.

To repeat - this is only one way, not only way.

And continuing the logical train - as charisma boost applies additively but never subtract - then it is also very likely that another related bug which adds charisma boost but doesn't quite take it away (again, always additive and not subtract issue), then you could wear only +4 clothing max but have it glitch multiple times.

Point is there seems consistent behavior where interpreted charisma - whether correctly applied or not - is what boosts your max settler population.

It is also clear that when the game 'thinks' you are at your max, you can't send people or attract more to that settlement. So while the interpreted charisma score may be wrong, the application of the min/max logic is working correctly. Whatever it reads your 10+char score to be, that is the upper bound in which max settler restrictions for moving / adding settlers/companions kicks in.

The only unknown is what all correctly and incorrectly stacks your charisma + 10 score.

I have 33 settlers.
+10 (charisma), +1 (bobble head), +3 (Reginald's suit), +1 (black frame glasses), +1 (militia hat), +2 (x-cell), +5 (graqe mentats), +1 (beer)

Isn't there a dupe glitch for the your special book that can give you unlimited charisma points? I have never used it buy heard about it. That would give that guy with 60+ settlers a way to do it I assume.

Once you reach 10 in special stats there isn't a way to bring it over 10 besides bobble head. Besides clothes and consumables.

ya have your dog pick up the book and grab it at the same time as him, he has 1 and you have 1

The official guidebook isn't wrong per se. The formula is CHA + 10.

What is at issue is what counts, and how the game interprets various conditions that boost your charisma beyond SPECIAL + clothing + consumables like x-cell, graqe mentats, beer, etc. - AND - whether that boosted charisma is correctly reduced once the temp effect wears off.

Are temporary effects stackable? If I drink 5 beers do I boost my Charisma by 5 or by 1? If you consumed 4 graqe mentats that would give you +20 charisma temporarily. Also, there is a perk that doubles the effect of alcohol. I think it's party boy/girl.