Settlements, villages and cities... : V - Skyrim

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:10 am

So what will be the actual game area and what will be those five cities?
So in the north, with access to water, we have:
Solitude - NW
DawnStar - N
Winterhold - ENE
Windhelm - NE

In the south, rather isolated, we have:
Whiterun - Centered in mountain region
Riften - SE
Falkreach - SW
Karthwasten - W

Karthwasten is not one of the major cities, Markarth Side is, that map is wrong. Personally I doubt the cities close to the border will be major so Falkreath,Riften and Windhelm will be small cities/towns and it seems like the north won't have that much access to water because GI said it was mostly glacial.

The map I use http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-map-official

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:57 am

I feel like some of the smaller towns should look a bit like this:
[img]http://www.freewebs.com/areddawn/village.jpg[/img]

I'd also like sprawling cities, with more people in them. The Imperial City felt too much like some sort of pretend world. There weren't nearly enough people in the streets and it completely lacked the hustle and bustle of a large metropolis. I mean, when you think about it, work shouldn't go into just showing you you're in a big city, but making you feel like it too, even if they have to add city sounds and ambience into the background to help add that feeling, I'm fine with that as long as it's done well.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:58 am

I'm worried about the "massive cities"... mainly because I'm concerned every house won't have an interior, and that would really upset me... I liked how every NPC in Oblivion had a house, and you could break in whenever, depending on their schedule. Hope they don't axe that feature. I freaking hate doors that exist only for show, as in the vast majority of video games. Every house SHOULD have an interior, if we're going for maximum immersion (which is a good thing).

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:27 pm

Yes indeed. I also hope for more population. :mellow: God the towns felt empty at times, with a few citizens sprinkled here and there. I don't know, not asking for crowds maybe, but just make the towns feel alive. People should be more busy, less standing about.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:19 pm

If we're going to judge TES by medieval standards (i don't think it's a good comparison as they've been at that level of tech for 1000s of years) we have to look at what a city means. It was a population centre and a place of trade, industry, justice, religion, technology, vice and power. Do any of the Oblivion cities match that? Do any of them come close? Other than Skingrad's vineyards i don't really see any industry or reason for these "cities" existing.

A city may not have been as large then as after the industrial revolution but it would be sizeable and have considerabley more infrastructure than OBs (and morrowinds)do. Populations may not have been as concentrated but that doesn't mean there weren't people around. A city would be supported by a series of towns, villages and farms. Outside of OBs walls there's almost no life.

As a representation of a world i thought OB failed entirely at consistency and plausibility. It was a fun enough playground but that was it. I'm hoping that Skyrim does a much better job.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1155401-building-the-towns-and-world-of-skyrim/page__p__16912489#entry16912489

I agree. Morrowind had a lot more sense in that department. There you had mines, plantations, farms, transport, seafare, religous routes, heck, there were even beasts of burden and livestock! Oblivion's cities were big enough space-wise, but in terms of population and infrastructure they fail miserably.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:32 pm

If we're going to judge TES by medieval standards (i don't think it's a good comparison as they've been at that level of tech for 1000s of years) we have to look at what a city means. It was a population centre and a place of trade, industry, justice, religion, technology, vice and power. Do any of the Oblivion cities match that? Do any of them come close? Other than Skingrad's vineyards i don't really see any industry or reason for these "cities" existing.

A city may not have been as large then as after the industrial revolution but it would be sizeable and have considerabley more infrastructure than OBs (and morrowinds)do. Populations may not have been as concentrated but that doesn't mean there weren't people around. A city would be supported by a series of towns, villages and farms. Outside of OBs walls there's almost no life.

As a representation of a world i thought OB failed entirely at consistency and plausibility. It was a fun enough playground but that was it. I'm hoping that Skyrim does a much better job.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1155401-building-the-towns-and-world-of-skyrim/page__p__16912489#entry16912489

Agreed, 100%. I kind of wish that the many mines around the map were actually used for something aside from goblin lairs and such, or that the waterways were actually used by fishermen or pearl divers or something.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:42 pm

Seeing how there's a logging camp, and you can mine and cut wood, I hope that we can actually see some mines where people actually mine stuff!

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:27 am

I also hope we'll get a bit more verticality instead of only having these ground-level buildings.

Some of the screenshots actually shows a ruined city with buildings made into the wall of a mountain, so here's hoping that there are more such sights

This is exactly what I'm hoping for

I also hope there are some better 'slum' areas - the waterfront district in the imperial city was a bit rubbish - I'd prefer something along the lines of the Vivec expasnion mod for Morrowind

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:19 pm

Yes indeed. I also hope for more population. :mellow: God the towns felt empty at times, with a few citizens sprinkled here and there. I don't know, not asking for crowds maybe, but just make the towns feel alive. People should be more busy, less standing about.

Fallout 3 added generic npcs to enlarge population of towns.. Skyrim will probably do the same. The idea of have every npc in the game unique is a grand one but ultimately you need the "filler" npcs.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:24 am

Fallout 3 added generic npcs to enlarge population of towns.. Skyrim will probably do the same. The idea of have every npc in the game unique is a grand one but ultimately you need the "filler" npcs.

I hope not, with the new AI being (hopefully) good, you'd be able to watch them go about fairly realistic lives. So I'd rather have them all do this but have not so many than have tons but a bunch of them just walk around randomly and don't live anywhere.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:56 pm

Yeah, it would also be nice to see some of the villagers do something useful instead of just wandering about, like cutting wood or mining

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:19 am

After getting a look at the map, I'm not too worried anymore.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:43 am

There were a few small settlements in Oblivion. The village involving the Khajiits in the quest for Sheogorath and the village with the Dunmer and Nords who were at odds being two I can think of the top of my head.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:59 am

There were a few small settlements in Oblivion. The village involving the Khajiits in the quest for Sheogorath and the village with the Dunmer and Nords who were at odds being two I can think of the top of my head.

Still, they felt too small. I hope that in Skyrim even the smallest villages are at least twice as big.

Edit: Also, add more quests to each one, I hated finding those places in Oblivion just to do one quest for them and never have any reason to return. Ever.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:57 am

Exactly, they didn't serve any other purpose other than as the setting for a single quest. After that the village was dead anyway with nothing interesting happening there.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:04 pm

If anyone's played Nehrim which is a FREE MOD they should probaby make the "massive cities" the size of nehrims 2 cities.

Hell the capital had two layers of wall an outer fort and farmland infront of it

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:24 pm

One thing that I hated about Oblivion (and Fallout 3) was that you either had these huge walled cities or really small settlements consisting out of a farm and two houses.

Where are the villages in between? You know, they have several houses and a farm or two, an inn and a few small shops, and maybe they're partially surrounded by a wooden fence. These are bigger than settlements and you can see how a few hundred years later they might become a city.

The logging community spoken of in the magazine definitely seems a step in the right direction, but hopefully this won't be an isolated case.

If you take a look http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1157211-skyrim-information-explanation-and-compilation/ , I have listed at least 4 of the cities in Skyrim (possibly all 5) and you can look at the map to discern all the villages strewn across the landscape of Skyrim.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:31 pm

You mean the map from the tour of their offices? It's nice but it only shows map markers of the villages, not their actual size and such.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:13 pm

I hope you are right.

Personally I'm hoping for atleast one of the cities being a major stronghold in the mountains with several levels of walls stretching up through the mountains, with the cities itself being parts below the battlements and partly in between the walls.

lol Sounds like Minas Tirith.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:55 pm

I'd really like to see Solitude and pay a visit to the Wolf Queen.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:47 pm

A city inside a mountain like the dwarven city in Dragon Age would also be nice

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:02 pm

I also hope there won't be any settlements and villages somewhere in the wilderness without a road or way leading to them like it was the case with Bleakers Way and Border Watch. I loved how all settlements in Morrowind had road signs everywhere on the map, that also made it more realistic IMHO.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:45 pm

Well, one such remote village doesn't bother me, maybe it's a haunted village

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:46 am

I would be content with Oblivion sized cities, but open like in Morrowind.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:16 am

I can understand that that might be too taxing for the consoles (and lower end PCs), but if they have these villages that are bigger than settlements yet smaller than the big cities than we'd have a little of everything. Big walled cities and smaller (open) villages.

Something the size of Caldera would be a nice village size.