One thing that I hated about Oblivion (and Fallout 3) was that you either had these huge walled cities or really small settlements consisting out of a farm and two houses.

Where are the villages in between? You know, they have several houses and a farm or two, an inn and a few small shops, and maybe they're partially surrounded by a wooden fence. These are bigger than settlements and you can see how a few hundred years later they might become a city.

The logging community spoken of in the magazine definitely seems a step in the right direction, but hopefully this won't be an isolated case.

Honestly they shouldn't really have those clusters of 2-3 houses at all. Either make lone houses/inns, actual villages or cities, not those inbetween no-sense-making stuff

Oblivion's cities were pretty much just villages.. I hope they have bigger capitals this time

Oblivion's cities were quite big if you ask me, big enough to be classified as a city by medieval standards. And I don't mind a few of these remote farming settlements, but I really want to see some in-between villages too.

Many people may not know this but Cyrodil is suppose to be the least populated region in Tamriel. The Imperial city was suppose to be the only real city. Be happy they didn't do it that way either. Still I think the will make it better considering there are only five cities in Skyrim meaning that it won't be the entire province probably just the eastern half. Before one goes off and says that is awful and Oblivion was bigger, it was also incredibly scaled down. I mean it took over a thousand men to storm the Imperial City in the book, it was done by 40 Daedra and one god who did little more then stand there in the game. So we can expect more flushed out cities and villages, and even small settlement because the areas are going to be more detailed and hand placed goodness, not just random hieghtmaps and a few scattered houses. Guess I am saying it will probably be more like Morrowind's settlements and towns, but have Oblivion style cities, just not walled in.

It would appear that for the magazine article they had a short playthrough with a single character, and only travelled within a limited area. Therefore, the town of Riverwood mentioned on page 54 is probably the same town seen on page 52. On this map http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/gallery_files/cyrodiillargelowrescr7.jpg Riverwood is one of the small villages (Hackdirt and Borderwatch are listed as larger towns), and the screenshot shows it to have at least 6 buildings, making it larger than at least most of the villages in Oblivion, which I take as a good sign.

They say there are 5 massive cities. I hope this means 'at least as big as Balmora' and not 'A little bigger than the Oblivion cities.

I see your point and agree, but there was some villages between like that village that you had to terrorize in Sheogoraths quest

They had like... 2 streets each. Hardly big enough to be cities.

I hope you are right.

Personally I'm hoping for atleast one of the cities being a major stronghold in the mountains with several levels of walls stretching up through the mountains, with the cities itself being parts below the battlements and partly in between the walls.

Hackdirt and Border Watch were the only villages in Oblivion that could actually be classified as actual villages. The rest were just hamlets I guess.

But Riverwood is looking pretty big for what it is, so I don't think it will be the same case this time around.

So what will be the actual game area and what will be those five cities?
So in the north, with access to water, we have:
Solitude - NW
DawnStar - N
Winterhold - ENE
Windhelm - NE

In the south, rather isolated, we have:
Whiterun - Centered in mountain region
Riften - SE
Falkreach - SW
Karthwasten - W

I'm thinking for the 5; Solitude and Winterhold in the north, and Karthwasten, Whiterun/Falkreach and Riften to the south.
That creates the longest routes between cities. However, it could also be setup to be north centric, like:
Solitude, Dawnstar, Winterhold, and Windhelm along the coast, with Whiterun in the mountains, with the southern ones only being smaller border towns.
Shorter routes, but in what I imagine to be a safer area for new characters to venture in.

Looking at the scans, it appears that some towns (probably the southern ones) are built heavily "into" cliffs that you may not be able to get through.

Also, starting near the town (not city) of Dunbarrow, with closest city Solitude sounds pretty feasible. You get little roads, with sea and rolling hills as landscape, with tall mountains raising in the distant south, and the distance is quite manageable by foot.

Any other speculations?

Edit: Oh, I was using this map:
http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/98383-skyrim-map/

the imperial city was a village, the other cities were.... whats smaller than a village, 3 houses and a shop

If we're going to judge TES by medieval standards (i don't think it's a good comparison as they've been at that level of tech for 1000s of years) we have to look at what a city means. It was a population centre and a place of trade, industry, justice, religion, technology, vice and power. Do any of the Oblivion cities match that? Do any of them come close? Other than Skingrad's vineyards i don't really see any industry or reason for these "cities" existing.

A city may not have been as large then as after the industrial revolution but it would be sizeable and have considerabley more infrastructure than OBs (and morrowinds)do. Populations may not have been as concentrated but that doesn't mean there weren't people around. A city would be supported by a series of towns, villages and farms. Outside of OBs walls there's almost no life.

As a representation of a world i thought OB failed entirely at consistency and plausibility. It was a fun enough playground but that was it. I'm hoping that Skyrim does a much better job.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1155401-building-the-towns-and-world-of-skyrim/page__p__16912489#entry16912489

I don't quite understand what people expect in terms of city size. They aren't going to make a city big enough to hold 100,000 inhabitants. It's simply infeasible. It's not like they can do the Mass Effect/Dragon Age trick and have a few small cells and the image on a larger city in the back ground. It's a free roam game after all. I thought city size in OB was fine. I just wanted them to be 'alive' a little more.

I think I should mention that that map is unofficial and that by official sources, there are no rivers yet designed for Skyrim. Not that there won't be, but we won't know where it is from that map. I think your ideas are pretty good. Winterhold, Solitude and Whiterun are pretty necessary I reckon. Then probably Karthwasten and Riften.

Guess I'm hoping that towns can be the size of OB town, and the five cities slightly larger, and none of that weird cell design that plagued Imperial City and Vivec. Never had a problem with them being celled, nor their size or population. I prefer a game that runs well.

I see what you're saying, but if you think about Cyrodiil (Oblivion), it makes sense for people to mainly live in the larger cities as opposed to smaller villages, considering there are so many large communities, with security and urbanization. Realistically, few people would choose to live in a small city as opposed to a large town, and therefore, there would only be an occasional small settlement with few people, among several large cities.

You forgot / don't know about Bleaker's Way I guess.

I also hope "5 massive cities" means, "5 massive cities" and that there'll be many with about a dozen houses.

Yes, I am also hoping they aren't dramatically exxagerating for the sake of the article. Bleakers way even wasn't that big. Only had about 5 or 6 buildings didn't it? And no shops or anything.

Each of these 5 major cities should have market districts at least as big as the imperial city, comparatively huge populations, culture and festivals, unique attractions, a large variety of inns, taverns, guildhalls and clubs and areas surrounding where they can be seen gathering resources, like docks with fishing boats that actually fish, farms near every city, etc. They should be at least 4 times the area of the average Oblivion city.

If I recall correctly, the magazine talks of an inhospitable northern coast (and a more habitable south), so I think the orientation people suggest here will be all different, with most of the game taking place lower on the map, instead of in the north.

And let's not forget 200 years have passed and there is a civil war. Cities that would logically be part of the list of major cities might not even exist as anything more than a ruin.

My guess is that those five big cities are walled in, maybe in several districts, but other towns might or might not be walled in, and the villages are open.

I also hope we'll get a bit more verticality instead of only having these ground-level buildings.

Some of the screenshots actually shows a ruined city with buildings made into the wall of a mountain, so here's hoping that there are more such sights

I don't think you can judge how big Riverwood based on a map 200 years outdated. But I hope the cities will be bigger, and have an actual lively population. They felt extremely shallow in Oblivion.

Excellent point.

This.