Just a few more things:

1. My FPS are relatively low when I look in some directions in Pell's Gate, but nothing serious (and in most places it's fine anyway). Overall I think the framerate is acceptable - and I'm very picky about framerates since some mods don't seem to care at all for it. I don't run any texture packs, but I have a few NPCs added by other mods passing through the town from time to time which might decrease performance. Just yesterday I saw a merchant with his guard followed by an adventurer passing through, all of them riding a horse. That's 3 NPCs and 3 creatures more than planned and the framerate was still acceptable.

2. The Lost Spires patch will be a bit tricky to make. I know of at least one scripted sequence that takes place in front of the Archeology guild and there are lots of persistent references added by Lost Spires where Pell's Gate is. Since these references are stored in the save game and since AI packages and possibly scripts refer to them it will be hard to move them. I think you should get help from an experienced patch modder to figure out if and how it's possible.

3. I could need some help with the gallery quest. I should probably look a bit further before I cry for help, but I'd like to go on since my time is limited right now .


4. I found a bug that was most likely fixed already by the patch you released. Didn't play with the patch yet, so I just mention it anyway.

Thanks Phitt! Good to know FPS is acceptable.

The bug has been fixed in the new ESP and also the problem of the dialog not appearing in order to start the quest to Rob the Gallery. If you are using the old ESP you will have a problem after the 'Quest to Find the Septim Crown', with an NPC's dialog not starting and therefore giving you the quest to Rob the Gallery, the fix is a simple console command that I will pm to you.

If you are absolutely stuck in the quest go to the Creature Display and get in the display, right by the deer are some 'magic mushrooms', one of them (I think the one at the back of the group of mushrooms), takes you to my office. Talk to me and I will give you a complete walkthrough that you will have ingame to take you through the quest, without revealing spoilers.

Oh boy. I just took a look at what's going to be needed to patch this up, and it's definitely not something to tackle if you've never made patches before. My tutorial doesn't cover what happens when you have to move persistent objects, let alone several of them with their associated AI and scripts. It's not impossible though, I've already tackled one that had to split Ravenview and Cloudtop Mountains apart. There's still room enough on the island to pull the Archaeology Guild building and the scripted events back further so it probably isn't as bad as it looks.

Good to know it can be done. But I see what you mean, I will have to leave this one up to the experts so it is done right.

Don't want to speak for firesparks... but honestly ...why should always we move our locations just to remove them again as soon as the next city, village or road plasters Cyrodiil....please don't get me wrong....this is not meant as a critique on this or any other mod but exactly the reason why we for example will not mod cyrodiil anymore...however...a patch could be easily done though by simply removing the camp as it is not quest releted anyway ...afaik...

cheers

Why? Because we use the word please??

Because with patching being the only avenue of addressing compatibility this will lead to load orders half full of patches for mods where each modder decided that no compromise or bending of vision was worthwhile?? Because Cyrodiil is overcrowded and the answers so far are make a choice, patch patch and triple patch, or DIY. what else? ... Because like life respecting boundaries and working on co-existence is key to both mutual survival (in load orders) and creating a tamriel that feels built by a community.

This mod took Shezrie/Meek 2 years to complete and if it were another half completed town with no interiors or yet another free house-castle that plops down on that island for nothing but the view then yeah I see your point. We say that Cyrodiil is overcrowded yet I can think of large swathes of land that are not touched and yet still there are other areas where you could stack mods 10 high.

Probably I should just stick with the please. All the rest, while valid in a larger sense, does not really apply to you and your work to open the world up to make room. I can see, though, how that might be annoying to read.

It is basically the nature of the game at this point, everything will conflict and all we can do is if possible make patches so more people can enjoy more mods.

But in the case of cities, towns, villages...it is considerably easier to move a camp then it is to move a 31 building town, as is the case here. Or a even a ten building village. So in the case of a conflict we have to look at which is easier to move, or not do anything and tell people they cannot play the two mods together. Space in Cyrodiil is tight and placing a town is extremely tricky, when I started this town three years ago it only conflicted with Lost Spires. I tried to move it but it simply didn't fit anywhere else. The town's layout is structured to fit around the main road, moving it would be a nightmare and require relandscaping, reroading and restructuring the layout of the whole town.

People want to play your mod and my mod, if there is a way, even though it takes some effort, it would be nice to enable this.

Sorry in advance Shezrie for this, nothing following relates negatively to you or your mod, this is a response to Psymon's response to Onra.

This starts to go off-topic, but speaking generally rather than specifically about Shezrie's Towns, I am in full agreement with Onra on the point he's trying to make. Mods will and do overlap, of course they do. And some modders are very agreeable to move the content of their mod to make way for the content of other mods, even though their mod is older. Guards of Cyrodiil's Nexus page is exactly one year old today, so that mod has been publicly available for at least a full year, and that page is named Guards of Cyrodiil Redux - so there might have been a different previous page prior to being re-released as Redux, I can't remember. Onra and Firesparks have in the past often relocated the content of their mods to benefit other mods, even if the original location of their own mod content was perfectly positioned already. You don't know how long Firesparks spent creating Guards of Cyrodiil, he may have taken two long years too.

No modder should be expected to change the content of their own mod purely so that another mod editing the same location can be used at the same time. You can ask them (preferably via PM, rather than simply posting in a thread that maybe they could move their stuff - a public suggestion of such mod-changing will result in a public response, and if the responder has already bent over backwards in the past to resolve such issues, might well respond with some annoyance that it would simply be assumed they would do so yet again), but you should never expect or demand it.

And if they do say no, rather than start throwing reasons why you think it reasonable that they do what you want instead of what they want, accept their response, and start considering compatibility patching instead.

With specific relation to Shezrie's Towns, Onra never suggested that Shezrie should move Pell's Gate or reshape the town, he merely asked why Firesparks should be expected to take the time to rip his mod to pieces just because a new mod has come out and conflicts with Guards of Cyrodiil.

Leave Guards of Cyrodiil as it is, and maybe someone can provide a patch instead. Onra would have been far more responsive to the suggestion that he or Firesparks might be able to assist with a patch.

@ psymon

you should know that I am always trying to create stuff as compatible as possible and to avoid patches where I can...and of course it is much easier to move a small camp than a complete town...no need to discuss this....it is simply getting frustrating, as firesparks has moved a lot locations for compatibility reasons just a short time ago....

edit

as vorians said... a patch seems to make more sense here especially as moving the camp to a new location will probably just end in conflicting with other mods....

To be honest I don't think Psymon was intending to be demanding in any way, he was mentioning it so that I could add the conflict to the list of mods that conflict and perhaps I could contact Firespark about making a patch and that the simplest thing to do would be to move the camp. I am not sure it would be good for him to contact Onra and Firespark asking for a patch for my mod and their mod, probably it is better that I was to open discussions with them about the possibility, if I chose to address that conflict. :shrug:

Yes, Onra wasn't suggesting I move the town. I was trying to explain in response to Onra's reference to having to move their mod every time a city or town or vilage came out. I think the point I was trying to make and didn't make clearly was how difficult it is to move any town, with my own as an example and that was why they have been asked to move theirs so much for other towns/cities etc.

The point about it being three years since I had started the town was to explain that I had been careful about incompatibilities when choosing location in the first place, but things have changed since then and more mods have surfaced in that location. I guess my point was that I didn't just plonk a town there and expect everyone else to get up and move. I think that parts of Onra's original post may have come off a little bit more critically then intended, given the reference to the inconvenience of cities plastered on roads and this being a thread for a released town/city. Perhaps it would have been better taken up by pm between Onra and Psymon.

I certainly hope that such a patch would not require much work on their part, certainly not to the extent of ripping their mod to pieces and creating such inconvenience. But it is entirely up to them whether or not they want to make one at all or allow someone else to make one on their behalf. It is perfectly fine if they choose not to and their perogative and I am sure myself and no one else would hold any type of blame if they didn't. It is asking a lot to ask someone to do that. But at least now I know of the incompatibility and can add it to my list so downloaders are aware.

beside Pells Gate also the city of New Haven conflicts with Guards of Cyrodiil ...we will provide a patch fixing both locations...changing the original mod is no option as we would probably run into the same problems somewhere else again....just with another mod....

cheers :foodndrink:

I have created a patch for people who wants to play your nice towns together with Guards of Cyrodiil...

the small camp of the Swamp Moth Legionnaires conflicting woth pells gate is now located beside the Pells Gate stable...looks fine and makes also sense lorewise as we placed the Swamp Moth soldiers, which got orders to return to Cyrodiil from Black Marsh during the Oblivion crisis, at strategic points...in other words Pells Gate is now guarded by some Imperial Legion soldiers
which looks btw pretty good as they even have to pass thenarrow streets of PG to get to their check points ...
the dock of the nightblades boatman has moved as well and now conflicts no more with New Haven....the patch will be uploaded tomorrow on Nexus after I have made some final testing....

cheers :foodndrink:

Sometimes you just need to put your foot down and say no. Whether someone doesn't want a load order full of patches or not isn't supposed to be anyone's concern but that particular user. I'm sure there's plenty of us, myself included, who are willing to make adjustments, but even we have to draw the line somewhere. I'd prefer not to need another patch myself, but I'm also perfectly aware that Cyrodiil is overcrowded and it's not feasible to blend everything nicely and it's not even always possible to patch something.

Just the other day an issue with Vergayun was brought to my attention. Another modder plopped a different village down on the exact same location. We could play the "I was here first game" all day long on that one, but in the end, after I looked at it, it's not feasible for either of us to adapt to it. A patch is impractical because bot villages would be severely disrupted by it. So it's a case of both villages being mutually incompatible with each other. People will thus have to choose which one they want. I'm perfectly fine with it if people don't want mine, and I'm sure the other guy is just as content if people don't want his.

It goes without saying that I'm usually pretty flexible about things like this, but even I have to draw a line somewhere. I drew it at trying to merge two completely distinct villages into one larger whole. Onra appears to want a line drawn now. I think that's entirely reasonable. Nobody wants to spend an eternity continually moving their stuff around.

After playing Oblivion for nearly 5 years, I have come to the realization that having too many patch mods just wastes space on the mod list. You just can't have everything...and at 254 mods, I just can't fit anymore!

And now back to Shezrie's Towns, let's stop talking about anything else here!

Yeah lets .... now that the authorities have had the final say.

I was asked why ... and in that offered the best I had. I had no expectations that my rationale would make a dent, but from my eyes I don't see the difference between the original modder offering a patch for an issue like this and just altering the mod to begin with.

Well I understand that we don't have to agree - I don't think patches are the end all be all solution to all problems - mods with too many patches just won't get used.

Further this is the choir I'm preaching too - I've seen Arthmoor, Vorians and Onra adjust their mods in the past and I get how that could be frustrating.

I was just pointing out that I don't consider this just any mod but up there with the great mods that you guys have and deserving of the juggling that you do with each others mods and the mods of others (UL for example).

That is great, thanks! The more guards for Pell's Gate, the better. Especially with that fort nearby. I didn't expect any conflicts with Haven Bay, so was quite surprised to hear there was, but that is great that there will be a fix for it.


Richardrocket, I see what you mean about the bench up on Baggot Row that you got stuck in. I can see it needs to be pulled from the wall a bit more.

On another note, there was supposed to be a restaurant in the Royal Hotel but I took it out for this release. I think the town needs a formal restaurant.

Patch for Shezries Towns and Guards of Cyrodiil is avaible on Nexus now...

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35979


http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/35979-3-1291814218.jpg

cheers :foodndrink:

Thanks again - it looks like your getting good use out of OBGE - I know I'm continually blown away by it. Are you using a water replacer?

Maybe it needs a formatl restaurant and some nasty place that caters to poor people.

EDIT...The nasty place could maybe serve some food that actually poisons the player slightly. But don't actually say to the player that this will happen...make it a thing to learn.

EDIT 2...Could you make a version of Shezrie's Villages that makes the villages on the continental map NOT show up until they are discovered?

A number of people reported that all the custom creatures stood still and then the game crashed. The original upload was missing the animations, TES4Files doesn't extract those and I didn't notice.

I have uploaded them as a separate file called 'ShezrieMeshes'. Please download and extract, then simply drop the 'meshes' file onto your Data Files to install.

Please let me know if the issues with creatures are fixed for Pell's Gate and Woodland Village.

I added a link to the new patches.

I just checked out your new Pell's Gate. Neat town. The amount of work you put into the exteriors alone shows. The unfortunate thing is now I'll have to choose between this and Lost Spires (unless someone manages to come up with a compatibility patch).

Patience, it's on the agenda

Good to know, Arthmoor. Thanks.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13834 for the two ULs needing patches are up now.